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Ireland's Refugee Policy cont. Please read OP before posting

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Comments

  • Site Banned Posts: 12,921 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    We do take in anyone that claims asylum for many reasons

    We take everyone that claims asylum because we are legally obligated to do so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,166 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    This was addressed recently enough, but given that the vast majority of asylum claims are bogus it's high time that the laws change to address the fact that recipient countries are being defrauded en masse by fraudulent claimants to the tune of Billions of Euros.

    No country has limitless resources to assign to accommodating any Tom, Dick or Harry that turns up on its doorstep.

    The first and most practical step would be to actually enforce deportations as leaving it to bogus asylum seekers to remove themselves from the country isn't working.

    There are people who genuinely need to come here to claim asylum, but when you choose to not be discerning in who you allow to remain in the country after their claims have been processed you squeeze out the genuine claimants by not taking action to remove the people who's claims have been proven to be fraudulent.

    We take other forms of fraud extremely seriously within Irish Law and society at large yet we do nothing to deal with people defrauding the IPAS system.

    What confuses me is how anyone cocnerning themselves with notional social justice could be anything but disgusted by these fraudulent claimants and their refusal to leave the jurisdiction.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,078 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    We have a legal obligation to process them. That’s it.

    We should be deporting people quicker when their application fails. We should be processing applications quicker. I’ve said this many times.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,921 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    I don't think anyone has any arguments against failed asylum seekers being deported. There are issues as to the expense etc, but in principle, those served with deportation orders should be leaving the country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,746 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    All this bickering over semantic terminology is irrelevant and just intended to derail the legitimate discussion.

    The bottom line is that there are too many migrants arriving, most of whom are here for economic reasons but attempting to circumvent the requirements for same by posing as refugees/asylum seekers.

    Those are the facts of the matter as verified by officials and statistics.

    The issue is that we are not dealing with these people efficiently or effectively. That is what needs to be addressed.

    I posted a few days back about methods of doing so to be met with the usual "you can't do that" nonsense. Why nonsense? Well because during the financial crisis and especially during covid, we saw laws and rules being bent, broken, or just ignored to allow the imposition of whatever policies were deemed "necessary" - often at extremely short notice and with minimal if any debate.

    Even now we've seen planning laws circumvented all over the country to allow tent cities and modular housing to be installed (although if you are an Irish taxpayer trying to set something similar up on your own property to support your offspring in the midst of the government-led housing crisis, woe betide you if you don't dot every i and cross every t!)

    The point is that "laws" are not written in stone or blood, and can be and are changed all the time depending on what is required for the circumstances or what is politically expedient. This is no different!

    We just need a Government that will do it!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    And house them no matter how ever long it takes to assess their application?, no matter where they come from?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Problem is that while we're assessing their application we have "apparently" a legal obligation to house them no matter how many tens of thousands arrive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,746 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Massive tent city beside the airport (to cover both arrivals there and from the North via the M1) with a second one in Wexford beside the port.

    Fenced in with private security to patrol it.

    Provide basic health services and food etc.

    Keep them there until their claim is decided.

    If they don't like it, they are free at any point to leave on the next flight back to wherever they arrived from. It's not a prison after all!

    Problem solved and at a lot less cost than the current "strategy" I'd wager!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,089 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    Unfortunately that would be akin to a concentration camp for some on this thread……

    Mod Edit: Warned for uncivil posting

    Post edited by Necro on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,746 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    And that would be THEIR problem really.

    We need to stop pandering to (and even engaging with) these sort of people and put what's good and indeed necessary for our country first on this issue. By not doing so we are only giving them unwarranted airtime and a sense of (moral) legitimacy which is wholly undeserved.

    If such setups are good enough in other countries, they're more than good enough here - and again, no one is forcing anyone to stay there. They can go back to wherever they came from, or anywhere else that'll have them, at any point they wish!



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  • Site Banned Posts: 12,921 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Yes. Which is why the system needs to be sped up.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,921 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Fenced in with private security to patrol it.

    Imprisonment without trial is illegal and a breach of human rights.

    You will find our superior courts find the protection of human rights of the upmost importance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,746 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Don't care frankly. This is our country, our rules. Laws can be changed (even overnight) as you're well aware with the right political will!

    Plus no one is imprisoned. They can go back to where they came from at any point.

    Your reasoning doesn't hold up.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,921 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    It's not my reasoning. It's the superior courts of our country. They are our courts, our laws.

    They are the ones that will uphold human rights. Our constitution and the ECHR outline a person's fundamental rights and our courts will uphold those rights.

    You may not care, it doesn't matter whether you care or not. Our courts will not allow detention without trial. I haven't the time now to give you links to the many many cases of unlawful detention decided by the courts, but I will do in the next few days. If you have any interest in the actual laws surrounding these issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭ziggyman17


    can you give it a rest ?? you constantly post rubbish, it is because of people like you, that the world is in the **** it is……

    Mod: Warned - uncivil

    Post edited by Leg End Reject on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,746 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Again, laws can and will be changed all the time. This is a fact. What's missing currently is the political will to do so.

    What you keep ignoring also is that no one is forcing these people to come here in the first place nor to remain if they don't like the conditions. They can go back to wherever they arrived from or anywhere else that'll have them. Also facts.

    You may not like that and keep rolling out the same line, but I'm not buying it.

    Nor will I be wasting any more time pandering to it so don't feel obliged to provide links I won't be reading anyway.

    Enjoy your afternoon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,575 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    How would it be imprisonment if they are free to leave.

    It seems from a security point of view a great idea to not leave them free to wander the country when we don't know who they are.

    These people are seeking refuge and it would provide them a bed, food, water and security.

    If they are genuine then they should be delighted while waiting to get their claim assessed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,333 ✭✭✭prunudo


    The realists on this thread know what needs to be done and the dreamers keep derailing discussion. There's actually no point in contuining with it, should be locked. Between tedious back and forth terminology discussion or inability to discuss the topic more broadly the thread is ruined.

    Mod Edit: Warned for backseat moderation

    Post edited by Necro on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,746 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    See the problem and the uncomfortable truth for some, and indeed the entire industry and wealthy hotel owners that are making serious money from the taxpayers on all this, is that they don't want people to remember that these (predominantly economic) migrants are arriving in the country voluntarily and remaining here voluntarily - regardless of the supposedly substandard and inadequate supports and accommodation offered.

    If everyone remembered that, well they could just leave again at any time, it wouldn't really suit the agenda or the bank balances of these vested interests.

    That definitely can't be allowed to happen - hence nonsense about "obligations" and "laws" (while also ignoring - as I said earlier - that these too can be changed as needed) to keep the "these poor people need our help" narrative going.

    It wouldn't do for people to realise that billions have been spent on excessive and entirely voluntary supports while the natives and citizens struggle to keep or buy a roof over their heads.

    Ssh!! Don't tell anyone, OK?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭Damien360


    Mod Edit: Warned for uncivil discussion of other posters

    Post edited by Necro on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,333 ✭✭✭prunudo


    And do you know another hypocritical thing about this whole situation. We all have to worry about saving the world by keeping our houses well insulated while also paying carbon taxes in home heating fuels, yet 1,000s of men are kept in draughty tents leaking heat at the expense of the taxpayer. But yeah keep bleeding joe public and embrace the obligation train.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,746 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Sure we can just say it's for their "safety and security" or to "protect" them from the huge dominant "far-right" element in the country….

    After all, if we can legitimately restrict citizens movements to 2km and control their behaviour in the name of "health and public safety" then ANYTHING is possible!

    Just depends on how you spin.. er, market it!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 862 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    If I remember correctly a few years back they manage to literally shut the border air tight to stop a microscopic disease getting in but now we can’t enforce any border controls at all as it is just “too difficult”…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,333 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Wonder is there a 'nudge unit' working in the civil service?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    An asylum seeker from the Middle East who arrived here in March 2023 tried to claim for damages claiing his right to work was breached and he was being paid less than someone with his experience and qualifications.

    The Judge was unconvinced the ban on asylum seekers working in the public sector is disproportionate and stated how his complaint was not about accessing the labour market per se, but that he could not access his preferred employment.

    He claimed "The Irish prohibition on public sector work amounts to a “disproportionate” limitation on his labour market access without legitimate justification and in breach of the EU directive. It breached his rights under the Irish Constitution and the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU."

    He was allowed work after 5 months as of the end of August 2023 until his application was decided. He secured refugee status 2 months later in October 2023, and had already started work in a pharmacy the month before.

    He is an economic migrant using the asylum system as a trojan horse rather than applying for a visa like the rest of them have to do. I'd say his 'experience and qualifications' were not acceptable and required updating to our standards. He tried the victim card + "refugee" status would work. The fact he got status after 7 months and then tried to sue the state for damages is mad. Such entitlement



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,089 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    Nothing surprises me with these people.

    They'll try every dirty handed move to get ahead and take advantage of our abysmal system.

    This is why the a hundred thousand welcomes has to stop and stop now!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,333 ✭✭✭prunudo


    And it's the Ngo's filling their heads with their self entitlement and pushing them towards litigation. The ngo's should be arrested for treason.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,089 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    No doubt the NGOs tell the AS the loops holes in the system etc.

    They should certainly be de-funded and force to stop giving these people tents. They shouldn't have any say on immigration as they have a vested interest in this continuing, they are tied to this AS mess and want to ride that gravy train for ever



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,078 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Laws can indeed be changed all the time. The constitution requires a referendum though.

    Are you proposing we change the constitution to allow internment? Because that’s what you’re suggesting.

    I hope there’s no chance that a referendum to allow imprisonment without trial (internment) hasn’t a chance of passing.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,078 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    the “realists” want to break the law to solve the problem. You couldn’t actually make this up.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



This discussion has been closed.
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