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2024 will certainly be the hottest year on record. We're shooting past 1.5c ahead of schedule

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 sarchastic


    I have must of missed the latest Green memeo. How is not relying on imported energy going to stop climate change ? does home produce energy not produce all the nasty stuff thats causes climate change ? This is whats funny about the Green mindset. Like our interconnectors only somehow allow Green produced electrons in definitely block fract ones.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,704 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Our energy resources are in wind power, which is a major part of the solution to climate change

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 sarchastic


    Really you could cover Ireland in 100% windfarms no wind 100% of nothing. And if your going to toss in solar no visible light no power they dont run on infrared. So were back to carbon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,968 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    We’re not going to solve the climate crisis with wind energy but we’re not going to solve the climate crisis without it.

    “It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be” - A. Dumbledore

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 sarchastic


    ofc we are we have very old technology that already does that. But it's a dirty word to greens as it solves all the issues.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,799 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    the only other option outside of renewables is nuclear, but we may never accept this here in ireland, and its not just the greens rejecting this reality….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    The Environmentalists don’t want to solve climate change

    It’s a religion, there’s no pragmatism there



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,464 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Let's be honest, the human race doesn't really care about climate change.

    If it is the doomsday scenario we are being led to believe it's going to be, then how stupid are we as a species?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,799 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    this is untrue, i would class myself as an environmentalist, but the reality is, humanity doesnt know what to truly do about this complex problem without potentially crashing our economies, theres also a substantial amount of vested interests in maintaining the status quo, we have also significantly curtailed our democratic and political processes and institutions in being able to do much about it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,816 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    The Paris agreement is an agreement to disagree and it is non-binding, even China and India signed, they did not agree to the same thing to what the EU signed on behalf of Irish people. Wind turbines, solar panels and batteries are entirely dependent on raw materials that are almost entirely processed into end commodities by a single country: China They process these materials to final state using energy and chemicals derived from coal, oil and natural gas. The idea that wind turbines free us from dependence on foreign energy sources is entirely bogus.

    217e160c-e101-4de1-8155-aa0b7ba5dc3e_2068x1040.jpg


    The EU is attempting to export it's economically disastrous energy policies via the carbon border adjustment mechanism (CBAM) tariffs. The EUs major economies and the UK are de-industrializing, this is euphemistically called "degrowth".

    With its deepest roots in direct democracy and anti-capitalism, the degrowth movement is bent on challenging the central tenet of postwar economics: that further increases in GDP—strongly correlated with increases in carbon emissions—translate to further advances in social and individual well-being.

    The implications of the critique extend far beyond the usual calls for countries to reach net-zero emissions targets. To degrowthers, the climate crisis is a social problem, and addressing it will require no less than reengineering the entire global, socioeconomic order, especially in the wealthy global north. source


    Needless to say, these policies combined with existing population expectations of the social welfare state, lead to an entirely foreseeable outcome, that of political destabilisation, mass unemployment, growing poverty and state debt collapse.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 sarchastic


    True but they pushed it during the cold war era and beyond. Yes everyone agrees nukes are bad. but they then started to tar the clean energy source commercial reactors are safe as houses. Most issues have been with reactors used to breed uranium for enrichment use I.e chernobyl. If goverments and the greens were serious they should say go extict on your own heads or neclear for the future tilll something else comes along. I understand government point at least it's money various lobbyists and alike. No money in it for the mates as it's fairly costly. But greens I have no idea they don't care about cost until you mention nuclear.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    I think in general we're nowhere near as smart as we think we are. There are a lot of intelligent people but as a collective we are dumb as ****. Your right about caring. Not enough people care about climate change to help fix the issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,799 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    the negative reaction to nuclear is completely understandable, even though i was very young at time, i can remember the absolute fear Chernobyl induced, nuclear safety has dramatically improved since, but unfortunately we havent been able to convince enough, we will very likely reap what we sow due to this, i do agree with what some commentators say, we may react appropriately when theres an extremely serious event in western nations, resulting in an extremely large death toll, other than that, not enough will change…

    again, we ve significantly reduced the ability of our political institutions to make such major changes, a significant amount of our energy infrastructure is now in the private domain, run by major corporations and financial institutions, this significantly reduces our states ability to implement changes towards alternatives. its clearly obvious we need to abandon fossil fueled based assets asap, but best of luck with doing that if it means negatively impacting the operations of these vested interests, which also includes critical societal needs such as pension funds….

    …again, this isnt just a greens problem, but an everybodies problem, nobody truly knows how to address these issues…

    …this is very very complicated stuff….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,799 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    i actually disagree with this, i do think most are concerned about it, but feel they simply cant do much about it, as their todays problems are more critical to them right now, issues such as climate change are almost abstract, we ve no real clue what is or isnt gonna happen, thats not much good to the average person whos struggling to meet their needs right now, so climate change issues get continually put on the back burner, i.e. we ll worry about it later….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Solving/mitigating climate change is an engineering and finance/economics (assuming the science is correct)

    The problem is that environmentalism is a religion (a religion heavily borrowing from end of days Christianity and sinful notions), religions never solve anything

    The secondary problem is that the green movement is littered with Luddite’s and anti science and engineering numpties

    The tertiary problem is that Green political parties attract far left pinko watermelons who have some bizzare and crazy (and debunked) political and economics policies whose aims often contradict and undermine the goal of co2 reduction


    CO2 is solvable issue, we have the science and technology and even the economics to do it, but the lot doing the most moaning about it are actively undermining attempts to solve the problem, just look at their bizzare hate of nuclear fission and geo engineering



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    You live in fear because that’s what religions try to do

    Try to use fear to keep people inline

    If you actually objectively look at facts and take out emotion you would see Green nonsense for what it is

    It’s kinda sad that people would be so reckless to play with an important issue like that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,799 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    thats interesting, ive actually studied this at third level in both and an engineering and science approach, im also religiously agnostic, many of my fellow students were also, so…..

    again, you seem to think anti nuclear movements are primarily green related, when in fact theyre not, theres virtually no irish political entity that is pro nuclear, i may stand corrected on this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Greenpeace who put the fear of god into you and have some questionable fossil industry ties are directly responsible for scaring the **** out of people and leading to hundreds of gigatons of carbon being burned and several orders of magnitude more people dying than Chernobyl directly from respiratory and funnily enough radiation (there’s some really nasty **** in coal burning like mercury)

    Like I said earlier, CO2 is a solvable problem from engineering and economics point of view

    However the problem has now been policitised and a quasi religious belief system which heavily borrows from various religions is now driving the conversation

    That degree or so rise can be directly put at the feet of environmentalists and their fossil industry backers



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,449 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    So considerable environmental damage is the fault of Greenpeace objecting to nuclear? 🙄

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,464 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    The way I see it, humankind needed to introduce some very hard hitting changes over the last couple of decades to help hold back climate change, but politically the will wasn't there, as the powers that be only care about staying in power, and if you make tough decisions, you usually lose power.

    Things like no passenger car ever being allowed to have 3, 4 or 5 litre engines. Absolutely no need. No SUVs allowed to be made, people being given one flight each per year, then taxed heavily for any other flights, total ban of burning of fossil fuels to heat a home. Etc etc. There are literally thousands of changes which could have been forced on the public, as well as corporations, to help the issue but the nettle wasn't grasped.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    When you put aside the Green quasi religious nonsense and look at the amounts of CO2 released over 30 years due to Greenpeace scare mongering and pushing everyone to cheap coal

    Then yes the facts are quite clear

    We had the technology for 70+ years now to produce clean cheap co2 free power, and what did we do? Double down on anti science and engineering bullshit funded by questionable characters



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 sarchastic


    Oh I fully agree you are talking complete sense here. Which is actually the real shame in all this. bit of wall of text incoming and a few caveats before the response.

    Ok going to use 10 for some explanations as it's a round number and people like that. As in these 10 vs 1.

    The only way this is going to work is if we do what we did with issues we fixed in the past.

    As a species we're really really good at tackling 1 issue at a time in an area.

    Remember CFC's, Water Treatment. Smallpox. These were single issues in areas we sorted them and we had a goal we had no political interference. I'm going to focus on Energy here as it's the main thrust of the climate issue.

    Now If we took nuclear as our only option this would focus the minds. As we are currently trying to attack 10 issues at a time. Now Nuclear may be the worst option for extractment at this time. But we have never focused on this one issue to make it more environmentally sound as we have not had to. As again we have another 10 in the mix of extraction running all at the same time that interact and actually dwarf the single Nuclear extraction issue. Being the worst in it's current form seems bad. But if you just focused on the one bad issue like we did with CFC's the outcome would be much better than trying to spin plates on the other 10 and their interactions in the wider environment as were not getting anywhere as we're really bad at multitasking.

    The 2 subcategories in this are Government and the People.

    Government is a simple issue of politics really I.e money at the end of the day and vested interests groups whether private entities with ties. Or just pure greed.

    2nd is the people. This needs a way more nuanced approach. The fear and it is real rather than imagined. You need to bring people along with this and dispel 90% of what people fear about nuclear and why we started to. The fear did not just start with commercial reactors again it was nuclear weapons. Carrots work better than sticks. You will find If they said people living x amount from a reactor get free electricity local sentiment would change over night. Expand that to we're going to use taxes to supply free nuclear energy to the economy. Yes it will start expensive but once it filters to the wider economy where energy cost is not passed on to the consumer and things become a lot cheaper in the long run for short to mid range pain. I mean we did that in the crash we got through it. 

    I'm not saying it's simple, it's just my 2c.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    "Forced on the public" and that in a sentence is why the greens were fucked....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,133 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Wind power is intermitten and unreliable where it has fallen off the scale providing 6% and less for extended periods.

    Our proposed plan for 2050 is a 37 GW offshore wind/hydrogen plan that would still leave us using the same, if not more, fossil fuels in 2050 as we are now to fulfill our 2050 requirements at a cost that those proposing it are so affraid to quantify as it would be so expensive it would wipe out economy due to the price of electricity.

    But you know all this already do you not !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,956 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    "before it's too late"

    Good grief! For someone who believes the apocalypse is coming, you are very calm about it.

    Could you enlighten us on what "too late" looks like to you?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 sarchastic


    They have no idea. Humans have been saying it's the end of the world since time and memorial. I think its just the arrogance they assume were a permanent fixture. Were here till were not I will be long dead anyway. Please don't tell them 1 large comet/asteroid would stop all this climate change debate fairly fast. But this Figure is alway pulled out of someone's back side when it's too late or we can't adapt. What they actually mean is they can't fly around the place and buy cheap crap and live at home. People in the real world don't have that luxury.

    And don't get me started on climatologists. When did they get a free pass to represent the entire field of science? I mean listening to people going on about this you would not think any other fields exist, all you need is an ologist not a physicist. chemist, biologist. You know the other fields that cant agree within themselves regardless of coming up with a unifying stace in their own field. But no need just get a climatologist. He will tell you why a physicist is wrong about water displacement



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,704 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Our long term wind resource is offshore wind. It is almost never completely calm 100m ASL a few km off the irish coast.

    And we have enough proven wind resources to be a net exporter of carbon neutral energy to Europe.

    The Irish government are failing the people by not making the investment needed to fast track these developments

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,704 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Scotland built wind turbines offshore and have been supplying excess energy to the UK grid for years now. The technology is proven, reliable, economical and (much) cheaper than fossil fuels or nuclear.

    The bottleneck is state transmission infrastructure and planning delays. (These would also be bottlenecks for nuclear, but you know that too)

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,173 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭TokTik


    How much energy is used to produce/install a wind turbine?

    What is the shelf life of a wind turbine?

    What happens to wind turbines when they reach the end of their life??



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