Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Freight rail in Ireland

17891012

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,449 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    Inside North Wall freight yard. Most of the sidings on the south side pulled up to make way for the new development. DSG taking over the space, and IWT will be loaded there instead of down the docks. Development going on by the quays at Odlums, and grain transfer buildings now demolished. They don't want trains in the way down there anymore.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,477 ✭✭✭Economics101


    I presume that "they" are the Dublin Port Company. A bit of a history of hostility to rail transport there. At present a daily IWT liner would cross over the main road twice a day (in and out again). Transporting the containers by truck from North Wall involves at least 36 extra truck movements across busy and congested roads, assumong no empty journeys.

    The lack of any strategic thinking on rail freight capacity is truly disgraceful. And this happened on Eamon Ryan's watch. Tells you a ot about the bicycle-obsessed Greens and how useless they were.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    I’d wonder about the economics of putting these containers on trucks at the port, only to unload them again at North Wall. The customer may decide to just keep them on the trucks all the way at some stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,401 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The Port Company are going to completely rebuild and resurface the entire Alexandra Road, so the tramway is going to be out of use while that work is ongoing - that's why this is happening.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,477 ✭✭✭Economics101


    So the N Wall development is a temporary arrangement?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,401 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Yes it is as I understand it, but it will be for an extended period while the work is undertaken.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,449 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    No. They'll seek to make it permanent, with other additional plans for connecting the port to North Wall yard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    The viciousness aimed at Ryan/the Greens is quite something. Apart from the reinstatement of Foynes on his watch, there are so many ministers of other parties who have cruised through their office holding without barely an achievement other than for their parish, and without a whisper of personal responsibility, but the Greens (holding a ministry bogged down by the weaponizing of the courts against infra development) get put under a microscope and personal responsibility assigned to them for lack of progress on a poster’s pet project.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭dowlingm




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,809 ✭✭✭bennyx_o


    Doyle Shipping Group I assume - the container trains used to be loaded on their yard (close to berth 31/32 from memory)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,401 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Ultimately that decision will lie with the Minister no matter what the DPC may want.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,477 ✭✭✭Economics101


    Well if the Greens' achievement in the railfreight area is the Foynes line, then I'm not impressed. I would have preferred to see the money go on capacity enhancement in areas where there could be more immediate benefits.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,015 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Is any company making / using modern road railer type systems, I doubt we have the clearances for shipping containers, but for bulk trailers for grain or flat beds for pallets of fert. - maybe ?

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,401 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    To be fair, the Minister was insistent that the rail connection to the port be maintained despite what the Port Company might want.

    We have also seen some frequency increases between Dublin and Ballina during the past government’s period in power.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,945 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Iarnród Éireann Irish Rail has today agreed a framework with UK-based supplier W.H Davis for freight wagons for the Iarnród Éireann network. An initial order for 150 wagons is to be placed to replace aging wagons, with scope under the framework for further wagons to expand rail freight services, subject to funding and relevant approvals.

    The total value of the initial contract is in the region of €44million for the first 150 wagons of the order, which will soon go into production.

    Iarnród Éireann’s current freight wagon fleet is approximately 50 years old and approaching the end of its operational life. As part of its ambitious freight strategy, the company aims to enhance sustainable transport by expanding rail freight capacity, supporting a more balanced and environmentally friendly freight network in line with national climate action targets. These wagons have the scope to provide capacity to accommodate growing demand in the coming years, subject to further orders.

    The wagons will be manufactured at W.H Davis’ Nottinghamshire plant in the United Kingdom. Their estimated design weight is 17-20 tonnes, and their payload capacity will be in the region of 62-65 tonnes an increase of 33% on the current wagons in use.

    The new wagons will see operational maximum speed increase from 80kmh to 110kmh. With a 10-year framework in place, it sets out the pathway for a significant increase in operation, raising traffic to over one hundred new freight services weekly should the full 400 wagons ultimately be ordered. The first of these 150 wagons is expected to be delivered in Summer 2026 and after a period of testing, commissioning and external safety validation, it is expected that the wagons will go into service during 2027.

    https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/news/freight-wagon-contract?fbclid=IwY2xjawKFeKdleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFMM0x1azFqaUlsQU1kUnhWAR7tEXfyF88e4Oz3Lj_4wdQkegV_E6d2xxfbUDZ-JjVTkOzhSo2ty7gTnvsZ9g_aem_vnQgDKpVNfUbJ4KErXThtg



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,449 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    New terminal looks close to being finished down in North Wall too. Middle of May was the planned date to start operating. It's expected to put an end to the night time work, and it'll all be loaded/unloaded during the day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭PlatformNine


    This is good to see. What is the size of the current wagon fleet? Wondering if this fleet is meant to be a 1:1 replacement of the existing fleet or also allow for expanded services. Either way the 400 unit frame work is great and I think is a good sign for the future of rail freight plans, so here is to hoping it works out.

    This also gives me high hopes that the order for new locomotives may be coming soon, although Im not expecting them until closer to 2030 when the 071s reach end-of-life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,449 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    New locos? The existing locos are grand. Be no need for 201s on the Enterprise soon either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭PlatformNine


    Rail Freight 2040 and IE say otherwise.

    The point of the new locos would primarily be to replace the aging 071 fleet by 2030. This may become less of a problem with a few of the 201s being freed from Enterprise services, however that is only going to free a handful of locomotives and may not be enough to sustain future plans let alone replace the 071s which are almost at end of life. But even then, by 2030 the 201s will be almost 40, still have a significant number required for Cork-Dublin services, and IE may not want to have them in service for 50 years like the 071s.

    Also according to Rail Freight 2040, other than replacing the 071s, the primary goal for the new loco fleet is to be bi/tri-mode locos shifting away from diesel units, especially the 2-stroke units like the 071s and 201s.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,945 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Other posters on here would know more on exact numbers but if we assume it's a full replacment of the existing fleet (timber, Tara Mines) then I don't think there will be many additional wagons in this batch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,449 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    I don't think we'll have the OHLE in place for a bi-mode loco by 2040.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35 Skyte


    Sorry if this is a silly question. Im new to rail freight and took up an interest recently. Looking at a map of North Wall and the port, the rail doesnt go all the way to the port, I also read someone mention companies loading containers onto lorries, driving over to east wall and then unloading.

    Am I correct thats what happening currently? Theres no facilities to load directly off ships? Is there plans for this, this seems crazily in-efficient.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭PlatformNine


    It depends on the service. Anything operating under the GDA would benifit from it. In particular Tara mine services could be operating almost completely under OHLE power when the Navan extension is complete, and the current timeline for the Navan line puts its completion shortly after when the new locos would be introduced.

    As for the rest of the network, yes it would likely be primarily operating under diesel power, but that is the point of the bi/tri-mode loco. Operate under electric power where possible and diesel otherwise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭PlatformNine


    It took a bit of digging and found information from 2023 thanks to IE's freedom of information from request IE_FOI_733.

    I believe the fleet is 198 wagons, 124 wagons used for freight services and 74 wagons for infrastructure and maintenence. I am not sure if all of the wagons are nearing end-of-life, but if they all are the 150 wagon order makes sense, especially considering a number of the wagons may be replaced by longer ~60' wagons.

    Freight fleet: 124 wagons

    • 27x CIE Tara Mines 32' Bogie Concentrate 54T Wagon
    • 14x 45' Container Pocket Wagon
    • 8x 42' 9'' Bogie Container Flat Wagon, Code LP
    • 45x 47' 6'' Bogie Container Flat Wagon, Code LX
    • 30x Bogie Flat (62' 9.5'')

    Infrastructure fleet: 74 wagons

    • 34x 62ft Rail Transport Wagon
    • 30x 42' 9'' Bogie Container Flat Wagon, Code LP
    • 10x Bogie Flat (62' 9.5'')


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 832 ✭✭✭Board Walker


    Has the Foynes line been connected to the network in Colbert yet?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,178 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    I think the wagon fleet is a bit different.

    I know there is another 10 CPW wagons that were not returned to service. There are 24 (33001 - 33024) in total and I believe wagon number 3 has rail guard modifications applied and spent most of its time stored. The CPWs are all around 25 years old.

    The wagons up for replacement are around 50 years old and are all vacuum braked, they are all of the LP and LX wagons. Tara ore replacement wagons may not happen in my view of things.

    All of the 60ft flats used in timber and PWD trains are air braked and may be replaced later on same as the CPWs

    On the increased capacity side of things, this will be interesting. You will notice on the current freight trains that laden 20ft tanktainers are only loaded one per wagon regardless of if its a 42ft LP, 45ft LX or a CPW. This is because 2 laden tanktainers on any of the wagons would exceed Irish Rail's axel load limit of 22 tons per axel. When the liners are returning empty back to Northwall you will see that the tanktainers are doubled up on the wagons. Unless the new wagons are very light and Irish Rail permit higher axel loads by installing higher grade of steel in the track work I can't see tanktainer capacity increasing unless you run more wagons like the 54 TEU test train that was ran about 10 years ago.

    Irish Rail did use the 60ft flats back in the 80s and 90s with 20ft plus 40ft containers loaded or 3x 20fts or even 6x 10ft cubes. This is because standard container loads are less dense that the tanktainer bulk powder liquid and food stuffs. This was before all the 60fts were either converted for the timber loads and the rest for the rail train for the PWD.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭PlatformNine


    I had just been listing the currently active fleet as that would be what the order would need to replace to maintain the existing level of service if the entire fleet were to be replaced.

    Most of the LP wagons have been retired (im assuming from old age and/or lack of service?), even though only 38 are currently in service (maybe 39 I missed on that is listed as "Operational as Shunting Vehicle") there are over 150 units listed. Additionally a handful of LXs appear to have been retired as well.

    However if a number of the wagons are much younger like you say they may wait until a later order to start replacing them. The one though I did have however is if all the current wagons are limited to 80km/h, they may just consider replacing the entire fleet now to standardise the fleet as being capable of 110km/h.

    I will be curious to see how they approach the capacity issue, that didn't even cross my mind. I don't really know enough about freight to say anything though. They probably have a plan, even if its not a particularly good one, I think we just need to see what they have ordered first.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,945 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Apparently IWT liners have stopped operating again. Anyone know what happened to cause this?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,449 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    Doyle Shipping Group don’t want to pay to transport the containers between the docks and the new terminal in North Wall. Gone to the minister at the moment.



Advertisement