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Israel closing their embassy in Dublin *Read OP for Mod Warning added 19/12/24*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,109 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    Antisemitism does not exist in Ireland. Do you have any evidence to back up your wild claim?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    We had enough of a relationship with Saudi Arabia to have the Flag at half mast over the dáil when King Abdullah died.Yet we have no problem with them starving children in Yemen.

    Our president sends a letter congratulating the Iranian president and we open an embassy in Tehran , yet we never speak out about the atrocities the Iranians committ.

    All of this and more points to having a special obsession with Israel rather than a concern for human rights.

    Ireland holding SA to account really did nothing though , the world wide condemnation of them is what done them in.

    We should let the bigger countries in the EU with real power deal with the Israeli's and we should concentrate on fixing this country.I think it's a bit rich of this country which doesn't have any armed forces to be throwing it's weight around, we don't even do the bare minimum to protect our own country yet we're sticking our oar in about other armed conflicts.

    I don't like how the Israeli's behave but it's quiet obvious that a lot of our politicians have a particular obsession with israel, we had Claire Daly and Mick Wallace defending China and Russia while they were MEP's yet they despise the Israeli's., it's not a particularly good look for a country which is supposedly concerned with human rights when such obvious contradictions can be pointed out.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Would you like to share what else was in the standard diplomatic letter to the new Iranian President?
    Wasn't there something about Iran's role in bringing about peace in the ME?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,719 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Well if you really don't know what is said, here it is:

    If there's nothing wrong with the letter, why did he (wrongly) accuse Israel of having "leaked" it to the public?

    As for saying Iran is aiming for peace in the ME, unless that was sarcasm, it is a shocking lie for him to connive at with the Iranians.

    (Or maybe you really do think Iran is working away in the background for peace??)

    And I certainly don't see a single thing about Iran's own horrifying civil rights abuses. Do you?

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,802 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/president-higgins-addresses-human-rights-28463398

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2024-01-25/9/

    Nothing said by the Irish government or the president?

    You know you can google stuff before you type it to make sure that you're not just making stuff up.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,719 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    From your link about his "discussion" with Xi Jinping:

    "Although specific issues weren't outlined," 

    LOL

    (The Chinese take any criticism very personally, so there's no chance a minnow like Ireland would dare do such a thing to the Chinese Premier's face.)

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,802 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Our president sends a letter congratulating the Iranian president and we open an embassy in Tehran , yet we never speak out about the atrocities the Iranians committ.

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2023-06-13/169/

    Micheal Martin said the following

    Ireland has been clear in its condemnation of the repression of protests by the Iranian authorities, as well as the longstanding concerns about human rights in Iran. We have repeatedly called on Iran to respect the fundamental rights of freedom of assembly and freedom of expression. We have raised our concerns directly with the Iranian Embassy in Dublin and with officials in Tehran. Senior officials from my Department again raised these issues during political consultations in Tehran last month.

    In 2022, Ireland again co-sponsored the annual Canadian-led resolution on Iran at the Third Committee of the United Nations General Assembly. The resolution addresses a broad range of human rights issues.

    Ireland also co-sponsored the convening of a special session of the Human Rights Council on 24 November 2022, which voted to create a fact-finding mission to investigate and report on the human rights situation in Iran. Ireland also supports the work of the UN Special Rapporteur on the Human Rights Situation in Iran, Mr Javaid Rehman. We consistently call on the Iranian authorities to cooperate fully with the mandates of the fact-finding mission and the UN Special Rapporteur, including allowing them to visit Iran and conduct relevant meetings.The executions carried out by the Iranian authorities and sentencing of protestors using the death penalty is unjustifiable. Ireland calls on Iran to immediately impose a moratorium on the death penalty, consider alternative sentencing, and revoke death sentences issued for involvement in protests.Ireland has supported the addition of a number of individuals and entities linked to human rights violations to the EU’s Iran human rights sanctions regime. Restrictive measures now apply to over 200 individuals and more than 30 entities in Iran. These include asset freezes, EU travel bans, and a ban on exports to Iran of equipment which might be used for internal repression.The Department of Foreign Affairs will continue to monitor developments in Iran, and to raise our concerns consistently and directly with the Iranian government. We will work closely with our EU partners to ensure there is a joint, coordinated, and clear response to the actions of the Iranian authorities. Further sanctions will be considered as the situation develops.

    Once again, I ask people to google this stuff before postings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,109 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    Because unlike some other countries we can learn from history and make better decisions in the future. Child murder in another country might not bother you but you've no right to tell other people that they should turn a blind eye to thousands of women and children getting murdered. Defence of our own country is a different topic, we have more important things to spend money on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    These 2 posts were within 3 days of each other

    image.png

    image.png

    She even watermarked her "art"



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    As I said, it is pretty much a stock letter which points out Iran's importance in peace in the ME.
    It's quite transparent - you've deliberatley tried to use this letter as a way of saying Ireland is anti-semetic becaue Israel is a victim (as always) and here is Ireland cosying up to a muslim nation.
    It is diplomacy from a neutral country - the same reason that Dev offered condolences to the Gremans when their head of state had died - it just so happened that the head of state was Hitler. If Netanyahu were to die tomorrow, the same condolences would be offered to the people of Israel (or Putin and the people of Russia, etc.).

    As for who leaked it, I couldn't give a toss nor am I getting drawn into it because all of that is off-topic to the Israeli decision to close their embassy here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,802 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    From my second link.

    The Taoiseach raised concerns about the treatment of minorities in Tibet and Xinjiang, the national security law in Hong Kong and the case of Jimmy Lai.

    Raising the case of an individual seems pretty specific, don't you think? And if you read the whole thing, you'll see that Ireland also brought it up when Irish representatives were in China and at the UN. And raises it at every bilateral meeting.

    Higgins, before he was president, has a long history of campaigning for human rights around the world. As president, he has to be more circumspect than the Taoiseach, but he still does what he can. This whole idea that he's in favor of human rights abuses, or just doesn't care is ridiculous.

    So, when I provide links, please read them all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,719 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    THat's from 2022/23, and all he's really doing there is explaining how Ireland follows the EU directives on sanctions on Iran.

    None of that explains how the president wrote a congratulatory letter to the president of Iran full of lies about Iran working for peace and without a word about Iran's treatment of its own citizens.

    And then was so ashamed of his letter that he complained when Iran made it public, and even accused his more natural enemies, Israel, of being the ones to have made it public. Presumably because he knew it would damage him, and he couldn't believe those nice Iranians would have done that to him. After all he does for them!

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,719 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    If it's a standard letter, why did he try to claim releasing it was a hostile act by Israel?

    Why didn't he just stand over it?

    And did France, the UK or anyone else send a similar letter?

    If not, how standard can it be? And why did Iran need to make it public if they had similar letters from similar countries?

    I'd also say it IS relevant, because he accused Israel of having released it.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    You must have missed my line in relation to the letter being leaked - let me repeat myself here…

    As for who leaked it, I couldn't give a toss nor am I getting drawn into it because all of that is off-topic to the Israeli decision to close their embassy here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,719 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Pity he didn't bother saying anything similar to the president of Iran then, right?

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,719 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    You may not care but President Higgins cared enough to accuse Israel of publishing it in order to damage him.

    Which is weird if it's just a standard letter.

    Especially as they hadn't done it - it was Iran - which shows that it was worth something to Iran to have received it. Again, that shows it wasn't just a standard letter.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,201 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    It's nasty but I don't think we can be surprised that when a small country sticks it's head above the parapet like Ireland in to extremely sensitive global affairs (which I maintain is not in our interests) you're going to be taking abuse from various quarters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,802 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    The person I was replying to said we never say anything. That is far from the truth. We have supported every sanction placed by the UN and EU. And we did more. We cosponsored motions, we condemned the actions of the government.

    So now the bar is what have we said and done in the last what, 5 minutes?

    This is from the 1st October this year.

    https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/076d3-statement-by-the-tanaiste-on-irans-attack-on-israel/

    From April.

    https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/0d70a-statement-from-the-taoiseach-following-irans-attack-on-israel/

    Joint statement from April.

    https://usun.usmission.gov/joint-statement-on-the-islamic-republic-of-irans-attack-on-the-state-of-israel/

    So, can we leave the whatabouttery. Ireland has consistently condemned the Iranian government.

    So now, Israel has said that Ireland is antisemitic. It's said that our government is and has even said that its people are largely antisemitic. That's why they're closing their embassy. BTW, I posted this earlier, over 70% of Ireland's population support sanctions against Israel. Tell me, do you think we're all antisemitic? Do you think we all hate jewish people? Do you think there's actual antisemitism? You think that the irish government, and 70% of the population, hate jewish people just because they're jewish



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    At least Daly and Wallce are gone now. It is bad look for Israel to be charged with war crimes but still they have hearty support here.

    Ultimately Israel in a strop have closed down their embassy. Ireland have not acted in a similar manner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    What!?

    The vast, vast majority of people in Dublin do not give a darn if people are Jewish!

    This is a really scary narrative and sounds that you hope there is problems!

    My god I've heard it all now. This is close to stoking a fire if not just an attempt at portraying Irish people as antisemitic and encouraging fear and hatred where none belong.

    As for whopping and hollering? Huh? Where? What's my opinion also?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,241 ✭✭✭Economics101


    To answer you question: No we should not just support Israel. While we should make our principled stance clear, we should also make our abhorrence of Hamas and Hizbollah crystal clear, and also warn that we must never let our position be taken as a denial if Israel's right to exist and always be explicit in our condemnation of anti-Semitism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,375 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    No he did. I take the opinion that Dev thought (disastrously wrong) that been neutral meant you should say something always so he sent the message to the German embassy. He was dead wrong but we were a very young country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,595 ✭✭✭Dick phelan


    Ireland hasn't woken up to the fact that the US and Europe are turning right and are on the opposite side of this to us. Austria, Germany, France, Italy, Netherlands etc have all turned or have a good chance to turn right soon. Ireland could have very few friends within the EU very soon if we keep pushing this. We are already not the most popular due to our corporate tax system and our unwillingness to engage in any defense pact



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,201 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Yes, probably the biggest and most inexplicable foreign relations error in the history of the state that still gets brought up till this day. The Department of External Affairs as it was at the time pleaded and begged him not to do it knowing how offensive and ridiculous it would make the country look.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    Are you saying that most of the EU supports the Israeli bombing campaign



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Ireland could have very few friends within the EU very soon if we keep pushing this.

    Where is the evidence for this?

    We are already not the most popular due to our corporate tax system and our unwillingness to engage in any defense pact

    Tax is a national competence and every EU member is free to choose their own taxes. There is no ill-will towards Ireland from the other members over our corporation tax rate



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,302 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    we are neutral.
    we are not supporting any side. We are recognising both sides and asking that ones stops committing war crimes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭drury..


    Not much evidence for what he posts mostly as far as I can see



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,595 ✭✭✭Dick phelan


    A lot of the EU is much more neutral on this than we are, most of them call for a ceasefire without going foolhardy into recognizing a Hamas led country



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