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US Healthcare CEO Murdered - Please read mod note at OP

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Comments

  • Site Banned Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    What would be the equivalent in Ireland? Who would someone take out in an effort to change things?

    Mod: Warned for derailing the thread/trolling

    Post edited by Leg End Reject on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,393 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    There is no equivalent as our health stystem is radically different.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,498 ✭✭✭aero2k


    That made me smile, though I know it's not meant to be funny. And the two parties would call each other right and left, but when it comes to business they're both aligned. Reaganomics might have started the ball rolling, but Bill Clinton gave it a helluva' kick too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,484 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Well I disagree somewhat, the insurance industry has donated over $60m in 23/24 to political causes. Unless you come with a similar war chest , no one is going to listen.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,980 ✭✭✭buried


    We don't have the equivalent to what happens or has happened to america in any shape or form. Most Irish people expect exactly what happened to their ancestors, some f**ker collapses and another takes their place who will also ultimately collapse. Which is what invariably happens. Irish people have the cop to wait and just go along with it. We've been doing it for over 5000 years.

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 43,368 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I don't understand how someone can think that anyone can compete with the lobbying power of some of the lucrative corporations in the world.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 21,883 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    Mod: I've deleted some posts that are derailing the thread and responses to them, please be assured this doesn't mean there was an issue with your post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,283 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Who is donating the war chest needed to make all the social media fuss portraying Mangione as a folk hero?

    If people genuinely cared, it wouldn't matter how much money the insurance industry had. Iranian women were out marching despite being murdered for daring to do so. What would Americans risk? Nothing. And Obama got LOADS of money from private donations.

    No, "They've got too much money" is just an excuse for people being lazy. They're happy to post about how angry they are on Twitter, but it's far too much effort to get out and organise.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,484 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Are you saying that Americans have bad healthcare outcomes because they are lazy? Or selfish? It seems like a pretty convenient conclusion to me rather than the difficult and complicated reality.

    Corporate interest have a huge influence on US policy. The Democrats spent more than a billion dollars on the presidential campaign, the Republicans hundreds of millions, this is no coincidence. We have nothing like that in Europe. There are plenty of movements out there for improved access to healthcare but both Democrats and Republicans are unwilling to spend political capital on it, except for a handful like Bernie sanders. The political system is completely captured by corporate lobbyists, it's the most business friendly country on the planet, often at the expense of its citizens.

    Honestly, these politicians regularly trade their own money using non public information they obtain in the course of their jobs. If it's not obvious they are corrupt, I don't know what to say.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,933 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    And how much of this is down to people simply reflecting what newspapers they read and news channels they watch. US media is not exactly a bastion of balanced reporting free from being in someone's pocket.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,484 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Yeah it's a whole industry, the news channels are private businesses, running "entertainment" shows, that look like the news. I mean it's dystopian. People would have called you a mad conspiracy theorist in the 90s , if you had suggested this would happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,306 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Revolution always starts with the middle classes. One of the major reasons why they're hasn't been a revolution in American healthcare is because the middle classes could afford the insurance. Universal healthcare has been opposed not because it's "communism" but because the upper and middle classes do not want the poor to have equal access, thus limiting the quality and their ability to access.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,301 ✭✭✭plodder


    Well, not much of this makes sense. If it were a purely rational phenomenon then neither of their backgrounds would matter, nor Thompson's ten million dollar salary. For what it's worth, and I didn't see it mentioned either, but employees of his company were quoted in the immediate aftermath saying he was one of few execs in the company who wanted to change the system and do something about the company's negative image. Also, it seems the narrative has since moved from "poor guy, beaten down by rapacious insurance giant" to "young, hot Che Guevara/Robin Hood type takes on the rapacious insurance industry". The speed at which people everywhere (including here) reduced Thompson to "a tapeworm" and an undeserving parasite, was a bit shocking to me. If this were purely rational it would be about a senseless murder on one hand, and the completely separate policy question around how to organise healthcare.

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,958 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    this looks at Thompson and Penny cases [second one white man kills black man: acquitted]

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/12/11/politics/brian-thompson-jordan-neely-health-care-analysis/index.html

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,183 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    'one of the few people in the company who wanted to change it' is a part of this narrative I hadn't heard before. Not the sort of stance that would usually result in you being promoted to CEO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    Who is donating the war chest needed to make all the social media fuss portraying Mangione as a folk hero?

    Not sure if this is a serious question, or sarcasm, but I'll answer as if it is.

    Nobody is donating anything, it's just people making memes like they always do. Are you honestly suggesting that people are being paid?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,760 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Did he want to change the system? What does that even mean tbh? Under his tenure claim denials have increased and a broken AI system put in place. Seems like the only thing he wanted to change was removing his own employees jobs to further increase profits.

    If you want to change the system, then change it. Look for ways to increase profits that doesn’t impact your paying customer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,393 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    He probably wanted to change it so he try to could benefit and get away with more insider trading?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,183 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    'this guy succeeded to the top job in one of the biggest health insurance companies in the world because he was a nice guy' is an intriguing take, but one I'd like to see solid evidence for.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,906 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Are CNN suggesting he should have targeted a Black CEO?

    The stats would suggest it would certainly help his case and maybe end up getting praise from the incoming VP.

    What a fractured broken shíthole America has descended into, no where near the bottom yet either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,301 ✭✭✭plodder


    The article is below, which was printed Dec 5th (day after the shooting)

    A longtime employee of UnitedHealthcare said that workers at the company had been aware for years that members were unhappy. Mr. Thompson was one of the few executives who wanted to do something about it, said the employee, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the company does not allow workers to speak publicly without permission.

    In speeches to employees, Mr. Thompson spoke about the need to change the state of health care coverage in the country and the culture of the company, topics other executives avoided, the employee said.

    I would have thought the cynical response would be to say - he was probably only concerned about the company's public image to the extent that it affects the bottom line. Even if that is cynical, there's bound to be a thread of truth to it.

    There's a US company operating in that general area in this country, and they are notoriously difficult to deal with. I've had dealings with them myself. I honestly think that people wouldn't use these companies if they had a choice, or if given a choice (as we were) they would gladly pay more to another company that is easier to deal with. So what might be happening is that American employees are saddled with them, because they are the only option provided by their employer. If there is anything worse than a public sector monopoly, it's probably a private sector one.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/05/nyregion/social-media-insurance-industry-brian-thompson.html?unlocked_article_code=1.g04.kh2C.NumC6b5X6-20&smid=url-share

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,678 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    @plodder a bit of hearsay from one employee doesn't really stack up against the guys actions. He was CEO, if he wanted to make their customers happier, he had the power to do so. Actions speak louder than words and from all reports, even if we discount the charges of insider-trading, his actions lead to customers dying because of company policies he implemented or didn't bother to change. Rather stronger evidence than the testimony of an anonymous employee for, who all we know Thompson was romantically involved with or who he had mentored and promoted etc.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 54,183 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    The sort of employee who talks to the press like that is either one who worships the leadership or has a beef with them, I would suspect. Either way, probably not representative of employees in general.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,423 ✭✭✭yagan


    A businesses number one priority is financial profit, whereas a state run basic health service's number one priority is use of tax revenue to maintain a basic health standard for the citizens of that state.

    I think they're caught in the mind trap that while the US system can produce excellent healthcare results it is mainly for those who can afford the best insurance, a reward of success, so therefore countries with a good basic healthcare safety net are in their minds not wealthy.

    The basic fact is that as the assassin cited life expectancy continued to fall after the pandemic, whereas in most peer countries it recovered and continues to rise. Prescribed opioids is often cited as the number one legal cause in this trend and as long as healthcare businesses profit then negative health outcomes will continue.

    A patient cured is a customer lost is the motto of a profit focused healthcare provider.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,301 ✭✭✭plodder


    Believe whatever you want. I'd be more likely to believe a reputable newspaper over this kind of lurid speculation about him,

    @yagan Is that in reference to the "manifesto" he supposedly posted? I have trouble believing that is genuine. If he really planned this murder as meticulously as he did, with that vague rambling about life expectancy as justification, then I think he and maybe the world is a lot more f**ked up than I thought.

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,926 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    I thought this thread would be full of Luigi Lore. 😔

    The monopoly theories? The 286 theories?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,612 ✭✭✭Harika


    Some CEO wrote an article 10 years ago
    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014/

    There are two classes open already. Those you get the best healthcare and those that die.
    In some future documentary this was drawn out. A man with heart failure was send to hospital, in a one bed spacy room. He got best insurance and the doctors showed him the new heart that they are growing for him. For some reason he looses his health coverage, the heart gets destroyed and he is brought to the basement where beds are stapled next to each other. With luck you get painkillers.

    As the CEO states, first it declines gradually then quick. Syria was brewing for 10 years, suddenly resolved in two weeks. Luigi is one step of this journey. Is the ruling Elite interested in fixing this? No, Musk called a week ago all homeless people, drug addicts that deserve it. Yep the pitchforks are coming.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 43,368 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Yeah. There were numerous causes of the French Revolution but the spark was rising bread and wine prices. People across the political spectrum are refusing to acknowledge this as some kind of tragedy. For many, it's a blow for the common man against the elite.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,678 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    All the newspaper is reporting is what one employee told them. We're not exactly in an era reknowned for quality investigative journalism and media manipulation has been identified as a leading cause of electorates voting against their own best interest (Brexit, Trump etc.) so I'll stick to judging people by their actions rather than hearsay reported by a "reputable newspaper".



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