US Healthcare CEO Murdered - Please read mod note at OP

magicbastarder

'we' do?

It's like asking someone how effective their seatbelt is.

They may have an opinion, but if they have never crashed their car, their opinion is... limited.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122954473#Comment_122954473

I think despite this fresh press coverage that ordinary people will not consider Brian Thompson to be a working class hero no more so that was a great family man- the bad PR facing his company wont go away either. i guess he wasnt an insider trader either. The best they can do is reveal more about the killer being crazy but that is the best they can hope to achieve.

SnazzyPig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122954540#Comment_122954540

We still consider their opinions to be valid.

Thank you so much for your consideration.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122954583#Comment_122954583

I meant if they’re asked in an opinion poll. I’m not the one who tried to dismiss a U.S. opinion poll based on speculation that most people asked probably hadn’t been seriously ill. My point being that the same is true of opinion polls anywhere about the local health service.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122954749#Comment_122954749

Seems like you jumped in without understanding the discussion or reading the context. It was a general “we” as in “people”. 😏

Harika

Mom charged with terrorism for saying "Delay, deny depose" "you are next" to health insurance company after being denied a claim

If someone would have called her saying that, police wouldn't have done anything.

https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/mom-charged-with-terrorism-for-health

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122954473#Comment_122954473

The same article says that a majority of people whose health is poor are happy with their health insurance. Those people are certainly claiming off it. I mentioned Medicare before. That's the program for over 65s, which seems to be pretty good, and better in some respects that medical care for the elderly here. I've never heard of a trolley crisis in American hospitals for example. I read a quote from a doctor who was looking forward to qualifying for it himself.

Medicaid is the equivalent program for people with limited income. Obamacare/ the ACA resulted in a big expansion of it. I imagine someone on minimum wage would qualify. According to the article below the US govt. spent $600 billion on Medicaid in 2017. Beyond that I don't know anything about the reality of health cover under it.

One of the most interesting things about this incident is that, a lot like much of the commentary on sites like this and social media, the incident seems to have been motivated by Mangione's perception of US health care, rather than his experience of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122954875#Comment_122954875

I don't see how her been a "Mom" is relevant.

Threatening to kill people when the call is being recorded is dangerously stupid.

Definitely a whiff of overcharge off it though.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122954887#Comment_122954887

One of the most interesting things about this incident is that, a lot like much of the commentary on sites like this and social media, the incident seems to have been motivated by Mangione's perception of US health care, rather than his experience of it.

Yes this is what's so bizarre about the fury that Irish posters seem to feel about US healthcare. I posted an obituary about a guy who was active on Twitter (I used to follow him) who died because Canadian healthcare (free) is in a terrible state. I don't see anyone saying that Justin Trudeau is scum and that the world would be a better place without him, here or anywhere else.

(Well, not because of healthcare anyway - they did get very annoyed at pictures of him in Blackface from a few decades ago. Got to have your priorities right I suppose.)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122954875#Comment_122954875

I'm not sure I get your point here: it was a direct threat to kill or to have somebody killed.

It wouldn't make sense to say those exact words to her, but if the person dealing with her application had said to her "we're not going to pay for life saving cancer treatment for you because we didn't like the tone of your lettersabout a previous payment issue" that would be reported, and rightly so.

markodaly

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czenlg5d5rjo

Gen Z and Millenials learning the "**** about find out" line

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122953558#Comment_122953558

That's how it works though. Even in a country like the UK which has socialised healthcare, some people have to live with awful health problems because treating them would be too cost inefficient.

In the US, no way this CEO would ever have to deal with a claim being denied, something he was happy to oversee being done to others. If a working class person was shot instead, there'd be no manhunt beyond a perfunctory announcement by the NYPD.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122955065#Comment_122955065

This is disingenuous. Everybody gets the same healthcare on the NHS.

Yes there's a calculation by NICE about the cost of each extra month's life expectancy added by a new drug when deciding whether or not to fund it, but that's unavoidable. Even as things are, there's a real risk of the NHS becoming such a massive cost to the country that the UK is in danger of becoming a country attached to a health system, rather than having a healthcare system that enables its citizens to be optimally healthy and productive - which was the original logic behind the NHS.

But it's simply not the case that someone gets better NHS care because of who they are. A treatment is refused by NICE because it's refused to everyone, and/or because of that person's specific medical reasons. Not depending on whether he's a CEO or a bus driver.

And since I gather you live in the UK, I'm sure you know that really - which begs the question of why you misrepresent it.

What happens is that the rich can and do go private, and in that case they pay for every aspect of their care - which is fair enough.

Oh and also, I know a number of people (not rich) who have taken out private health care in the UK, believing they would get better care than on the NHS. More than one has found themselves in a situation very close to that described in the US, where they had paid premiums for years, only to find they weren't sufficiently covered when they actually needed it.

So should somebody shoot the CEO of BUPA? The world would be a better place, right?

ledwithhedwith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122955059#Comment_122955059

I’d say the CEO learnt the same!!

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122954887#Comment_122954887

Re: Medicaid

The worst situation to be in, in the US, is no insurance at all. Next is Medicaid, which will control some of your out of pocket expenses but is perceived as worse than private insurance, though cheaper.

Medicare is what you get at age 65, provided you've paid into it during your work career (it's part of your taxes, along with your Social Security payment.) If you're employed at age 65, employers kick you off their insurance. If you want private insurance, you can certainly buy it, and it's generally very expensive at that age.

Obamacare included 'medicaid expansion' which meant more people were made eligible, and more funds made available, but left it up to the states to opt in. Unsurprisingly, the GOP-dominated states refused, though that's weakening:https://www.npr.org/2024/02/21/1232859171/red-states-that-have-resisted-medicaid-expansion-are-feeling-pressure-to-give-up

Of course, when Combover Caligula is sworn in and resume his attack on the ACA, some states will auto-opt-out, throwing a few million people currently covered into the ether:

https://stateline.org/2024/12/05/9-states-poised-to-end-coverage-for-millions-if-trump-cuts-medicaid-funding/

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122953678#Comment_122953678

But his family is loaded. Why does he need a dig out?

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122955124#Comment_122955124

Mmm. Equating the police and justice system with a random crank who decides to take things into his own hands by murdering anyone he has even an imagined beef with.

What could possibly go wrong? 🙄

ledwithhedwith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122955143#Comment_122955143

he fucked around and found out! Consequences in life aren’t just confined to the justice system.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122955155#Comment_122955155

I wonder what you think he should have done differently, exactly?

Other than take a job heading up a nuclear powerplant or maybe running Monsanto's GM division? Or should they all be be next on the list? Very Red Brigade/Red Army Faction of you I'm sure. I'm old enough to remember the originals, maybe that's why I find them so unappealing.

I mean, you may not like the idea of insurance companies making a profit from health, but he didn't invent the system. Killing him is not just evil, it's stupidly counter productive: it will just push up healthcare costs because all the executives will now demand massive security for themselves and their families. And since the system is based on those companies needing to make a profit, that will put more pressure on them to reduce payments even further.

It can only appeal to some sort of "Burn it all down" nihilistic view. It sure as hell is not about improving ordinary people's lives. But then the more we learn about the killer, the less surprising that seems. It's just odd that so many Irish people are clapping along.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122955135#Comment_122955135

And how is any of that the fault of Brian Thompson? It's the system that people want. They even voted for Trump, in case that wasn't clear enough. They could be out marching in the streets if they wanted to change things, but they don't - except for themselves and their own families.

Not the same thing at all.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122955199#Comment_122955199

I don't know what role Brian Thompson ran in deciding UHC's healthcare lobbying donations, my guess is, that it was substantial as CEO.

So, does he have some blame for the system as it is today? His career at UHC was in the Medicaid and Medicare divisions, obviously don't know his role, but I imagine given the ACA was starting while he was there, he had some influence, yes. Blame about the design of the system? No, but in some ways I believe it's reasonable to assume he had some influence, yes. Private health insurers were against the ACA until they molded it into the design we have in place today.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122955215#Comment_122955215

I mean, we're discussing whether it's in any way acceptable to murder him. Not whether he was a bit too cosy with the shareholders for the patients' best interests.

Thing is, it was presumably the shareholders that he answered to, so unless somebody thinks they were trying to select some sort of Mother Theresa figure, I've no idea what justifies the personal animus against him. To the extent that edgelords on here are crowing about how the world is a better place without him? In a world where Bashar Al Assad is still alive and counting whatever millions of dollars he's managed to stash in Moscow? And Kim Jong Un is murdering and starving entire families because one of them has been listening to South Korean radio?

It's such performative nonsense.

ledwithhedwith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122955173#Comment_122955173

lol I’ll answer your question- he shouldn’t have been head of a company that had double the industry average of refusal to payout he caused untold misery to thousands of people and karma got to him. He fucked around and found out. I didn’t bother reading the rest of your ramblings.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122955249#Comment_122955249

That's not what I asked though.

I won't "ramble" by (re)explaining further. You can always read the post itself properly if you did intend to answer the question, which I doubt.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122955230#Comment_122955230

In fairness, you seem to have an issue with anyone with a negative view of a guy who effectively decides what's an acceptable level of deaths based on rejected claims or condemning people to a lifetime of debt. I don't think it's acceptable to kill him for this but his role in healthcare was absolutely morally reprehensible, I'd be of the same view in relation to major shareholders.

ledwithhedwith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122955268#Comment_122955268

evil met evil at the end of the day

joseywhales

I am not seeing all of these edgelords claiming that his death was a great thing. I am seeing endless posts about these fictitious posters but can't seem to find the posters themselves. I only see people who have a low opinion of Brian Thompson and the US insurance industry which is not the same as condoning murder. I mean maybe 1% of posts if I do a deep dive? We are in danger of entering man yelling at cloud territory.

ledwithhedwith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122955312#Comment_122955312

yeah I can’t see any posters condoning the murder , certainly was a karma element of it for me though.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122955317#Comment_122955317

Nobody condoned it.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122955268#Comment_122955268

No I think that's you projecting. The "best" thing I said about him - indeed the only vaguely positive thing - was that he was from a poorer family than the guy who murdered him, who had every privilege possible in the US. And to my mind that says more about the killer than about the victim.

So I'm not interested in faux-debate stuff about "who's worse, the shareholders of a company or the CEO", or "who's worse, the CEO of Monsanto or the CEO of JP Morgan or HSBC" because we are talking about killing a man, and ignoring that to bring the discussion down to "Well he wasn't a nice person" is trivialising that - at the very least.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122955382#Comment_122955382

Saying he was a parasite and the world is a better place without him, or that his killer is a hero for sacrificing himself for others, is NOT condoning it?

I bet if someone in your family was murdered and people were posting stuff like that on social media, you'd take a different view.

This whole thread has a bunch of posters on it who are just victim-blaming. The evidence for that being that there's very little discussion of the killer's character, although he has been called a hero by one or two - and a LOT of negative talk about the victim.

Nasty stuff given that nobody on here knows either of them. But sides have been taken, that's clear.