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Russia-Ukraine War (continuing)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,626 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    No, we know he can. But he, like his predecessor, is too much of a coward to do it.

    One phone call is all it takes: "Mr Putin, get your troops out of Ukraine within the next 24 hours, or I'm sending mine. The USS Gerald R. Ford is on it's way."

    Putin would huff and puff about nuclear weapons whilst soiling his pants.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    My comment about 24 hours was satire. I would think I've enough of a reputation of being a realist on here.

    The thing about EU buying American is unfortunately, a case in point. Only two weeks ago have the French started to relent on the whole "Buy EU" thing even for the EU, let alone anyone else.

    But that position had shifted this month, two of the officials said, adding that it would be difficult for the EU to simultaneously lobby incoming US president Donald Trump not to reduce US military support to Europe, while excluding US companies from efforts to build up the European defence industry.“Everyone is thinking a bit smarter since [the US election],” said one of the officials. Countries such as Sweden that have strong links to the UK defence industry had been opposed to France’s previous position, arguing that it could exclude their defence contractors that had British shareholders or relied on UK-sourced components.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f556667f-c2c2-4111-8dda-bc5b6ed9ce10

    There is actually some precedent. The largest purchaser of the Centurion tank (after the UK) was the USA, which never actually used it. Instead, it was the Americans who did not have the capacity to quickly both re-arm itself with Pattons and also arm all the newly-reformed European nations, and so they spent the money on buying British which at the time had capacity to spare (and fortunately, was a better tank anyway) and then gifting them to the Europeans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,438 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    His opposition to providing aid is so odd, given it's functionally a means of enrichment for US companies. You'd figure it would be right up his alley, giving his grifting nature. Would not be shocked at all if he tries to claim all the frozen Russian money for himself, as payment for US support etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,881 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Still angry about being caught in his shenanigans that led to his first impeachment. The guy's never met a grudge he'd let go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,431 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Sorry for going on at length then on the problems…well you never know to be honest. There are other people posting here who at least claim they believe Trump will swoop in and solve it all quickly (maybe not 24 hrs…) somehow.🤷‍♀️

    Thanks for that link.

    You might not like it but to be honest in age of "Trumpism" I think countries/politicians like France/Macron pushing for an EU defence autonomy, and not dumping vast amounts of EUR into the US (or indeed other non EU countries' arms companies - Turkey would be the worst of the "allied" countries imo…) for weapons are totally correct and sensible. Their position (held over many years) has been proven out by this war. Also, in my mind all the billions in the world spent on US weapons now may not guarantee any future support, given how febrile and unstable US politics is.

    Ultimately, no matter how good they are or the cost saving, they are never your "own" weapons and you are dependent. The countries that have wanted to support Ukraine but have, for example some Swiss developed systems or Israeli developed systems were stung in this current scenario, even when they have licences to construct these weapons for themselves.

    However being realistic, if it'll be years before required amounts or particular types of weapons can be sourced from within the EU (?) and they need them for Ukraine now (i.e. they are not for themselves later), the Europeans have no choice.

    I suppose I am separating 2 requirements for weapons here a little here, what Ukraine needs right now and in 2025 when Trump comes in (what I was thinking of) and what EU/Europeans need somewhat later but still soon (more subject of your article I think) and would be best if as much of latter as possible can eventually be designed and built within the EU.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,641 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,139 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Providing aid and selling weapons are two entirely different things, though. One costs the taxpayer, the other does not.

    The campaign was things like “why are we spending hundreds of millions of dollars giving aid to Ukraine when people in North Carolina are getting a few hundred dollars after a hurricane?”

    Now, the details are that a lot of the “aid” was actually spent on improving the US military and the donated vehicles had been made spare by new acquisition which probably would have been spent anyway if possible, but that’s a fine detail those who listen to politicians don’t often go into.

    If the concern is just funneling money to the defense industry, then absolutely, the easiest and most correct answer is “get someone else to pay.”, the matter is when a politician is elected on perception,he has to meet the perception, the answer then also being “get someone else to pay”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,438 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Either way, it's money in US business's coffers. I think we can accept that Trump supporters will go along with whatever nonsense he spouts, so all he has to do to is frame as some amazing deal for American companies and Bob's your uncle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,151 ✭✭✭threeball


    With his falling support and the fact that Trump has it in for him, I think Zelensky should probably step aside. He's done everything he could for 3 tough years and should for his own sake and his young families step down.

    If they installed an interim figure like Klitchko (yes he has his own problems), it could plat well with Trump. He loves celebrities. A former world heavyweight champ is someone the orange ape would see as someone on his level and would be far more likely to keep supporting Ukraine for a reason as simple as that. Couple of poses with their fists clenched and Trump would be happy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,175 ✭✭✭jmreire


    I guess that I can forget about the Rubles that I was holding onto now….😕



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,549 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    trump literally just dressed up in support of Ukraine and Zelensky.

    (Maybe trump ends up bending the knee to putin but that's no reason for Zelensky to step aside today)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    I mean, it's laughable, but you might be right re: the clench fist photos. He absolutely would love that ****.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,434 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'm not sure installing an unelected person into the position is going to do much for their legitimacy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    Just throw Trump the biggest parade in Kiev and ask for equipment to make it even more biggly

    If the Ukrainians were smart they would rename the cities being attacked in Donbas to be named after Trumps kids

    So every day Trump sees headlines like “Russians shelling town of Ivanka”, “Tiffany assaulted by Russian troops”, “City of Eric cut in half”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,654 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Russia breakout of Kursk region into Ukraine as confirmed by Deepstate. Looks like the pressure is building with all these recent advances in Kusk region lately. It's looking precarious for sure.

    kursk.jpg

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,571 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Looks well all the same when Russian residents see banners for military enlistment destroyed on public highways. Adds a touch of finese. Man destroyed 13 banners.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,549 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    What is looking precarious?

    Ukraine are occupying Kursk for months longer than putin wanted and will be dug in all winter while too many russians immolate themselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,654 ✭✭✭brickster69


    I would imagine Putin can't believe his luck having all them troops tied up in a big fish bowl hiding in the woods. Far better there than defending the Donbass front lines.

    What are they going to do all winter, sit around and hope a one tonne bomb does not drop anywhere near them. They will have to leave some time you know.

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Moderators Posts: 5,597 ✭✭✭Azza


    Applies equally to Russia. A lot of Russian troops tied up trying to retake Kursk that could be used elsewhere in Ukraine.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62



    Russia imposes 55.6% tarrifs on their best BRICS buddies

    and majority in support most of Ukraine entering NATO like west Germany did, this bit is interesting

    According to the poll, 64.1% of Ukrainians do not believe that talks with Russia are worthwhile without appropriate security guarantees by the West. In comparison, 30% favor negotiations without preconditions, believing Ukraine does not have the resources to sustain a war of attrition.

    Turns out the narrative friends of Putin were busy spinning is a load of 💩

    Post edited by j62 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,175 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Brikster69, since Feb 2022, it hasn't looked anyother way for Ukraine except precarious……



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Russia dropping bombs on Russia is preferable to Russia dropping bombs on Ukraine. Would you agree?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    @Sand Circling back to your comments about human rights abuses of Russian speakers

    here is a video of what’s left of Toretsk, population about 35-50K before the Russians completely flattened it

    According to Wikipedia 87% “Russian speaking” and 30% “ethnically Russian”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toretsk

    Anything to say about deliberate extermination of “Russian speakers” by Russians?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,549 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    So you mean the kursk incursion looks precarious? The one that's going on for months longer than anyone imagined? That one?

    At best, Kursk is a huge embarrassment for putin, cant even keep their own borders safe, the Chinese will be sniffing around in the east (well more than what russia is gifting them already).

    I mean, factually, russia looks precarious, i.e. the whole house of cards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭Deub


    I would imagine Putin can't believe his luck having all them troops tied up in a big fish bowl hiding in the woods

    You make it look like it is easy picking targets. Remind me how long they’ve been there? Why would it be easier now than previously ?

    It's looking precarious for sure.

    Yeah. The important part in this quote is « looking ». When I see your other sentence I quoted above, please allow me not to believe what you say. A bit like all the boomerangs you see coming for the « west » that we are still waiting for after 2 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    To be fair to @brickster69 one of Putin’s boomerangs did comeback this week and expose just how “precarious” his illusions of Russian global power are

    In the the 11 day war of last two weeks where Kursk Syria has fallen

    Who knew that using chemical weapons murdering 350,000 people and torturing millions and dropping gdp per capita 10x would boomerang back onto Russia?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,147 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I thought Trump hated losers and dealing with them. Putin getting kicked out of Syria and having his whole ME strategy go up in flames isn't being a winner, and what with the dead bodies stench from the Rouble and ORC economy, getting support from Trump might no longer be the slam-dunk it seemed before the elections.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,557 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    You can't just drop "with his falling support" into the conversation out of the blue and not provide any references/ evidence/ links for context. What exactly are you basing his falling support on? And if he started off with support through the roof, the only way to go is down, so "falling" isn't really the metric to be referencing, but "level" is… what level of support (assuming you have the info.) do you think is acceptable for a war time leader to have?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,557 ✭✭✭Paddigol




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