2024 F1 General Discussion Thread

I'd isolate the hate to "English" rather than "British". Race winners like Sir Jackie Stewart and David Coulthard tend to be well liked around here while any English race winners over the years like Jonny Herbert, Jenson Button, Damon Hill, Lando Norris, George Russell and Sir Lewis Hamilton are either played down as nothing special or out right derided.

I'm not a Hamilton fan but hes been a brilliant driver in F1 and a far superior driver than Hill.He's right up there with the best of them.

The Sky w@nkfest over him when he was winning races I could see why people dislike and play down his achievements. Yeah he had a great car but he has the skills to match.

Was lucky to see him race for his debut in F1 many years ago.

He was/is an absolutely brilliant driver, but next season will be absolutely crucial for his legacy. If he is hammered by LeClerc like the way George has hammered him this season, then his legacy imo has been diminished and cannot be talked amongst the greatest of all time.

But them arguments are nonsense anyway, and always down to peoples opinions. There can't be any metrics comparable to each really and using WDC titles is a skewed argument

I can't agree Sainz has proven he's the equal of Leclerc. This year they're on 272 and 341 points respectively. Sains has scored 80% as many points as his teammate. Last year they were matched on 200 and 206 and 2022 Sainz scored 246 to Leclerc's 308 (80% again).

Sainz is good and very likeable, but he has proven himself less good than Leclerc over 3 years.

It's down to perception. Hamilton is viewed as the best, so he should be the one that is 100% and Russell at 80%. The reverse means it's a bigger notional margin than the expected one.

I thought I just did.

What you say above is not what I said.

Ok. If Hamilton is perceived as being 100% in the team and Russell expected around 80% (2023, Russell had 75% of Hamilton's points total). Then when Hamilton ends up at 90% of Russell's performance, the fall isn't 10%, but (and I know this isn't the proper calculation) 30%.

Oh, so you're taking last years total as the baseline for their careers or their worth as drivers or something. And using the percentage difference from last year you're calculating the difference as the total difference between last year and this year.

So Russell didn't outscore Hamilton by 10% this yesr, he actually outscored him by 35% year-on-year.

That's pretty outrageous maths. Fair play. I can't compete with nonsense like that. You win.

Ah here, you should have quit while you were ahead (with the Hamilton haters!). LeClerc has shown he’s the better driver in the long run. Sainz has clearly had some very impressive performances over his Ferrari years and beaten LeClerc on merit plenty of times but the point tallies don’t lie.

Believe if Ferrari had delivered a title challenging car over the last few years, LeClerc would have shown the gap up more. To be honest, LeClerc would have had more wins even if they simply delivered a car with more race pace/didn’t destroy it tyres in 22 & 23. Ferrari have been a frustrating team to be a fan of in many ways.

This is not to say Sainz is mid but I definitely feel some are over eager at emphasizing his performance as if he’s still some plucky driver in the middle of the pack. Easy argument to make that Ferrari have two of the top 5/6 drivers on the grid where there’s probably only a few percent between 1 to 2 and again from 2 to 5/6 based on current form. Such are the fine margins in terms of ability at that level.

Why not use points scored, y'know, the usual way

It does add spice. I think overall, it makes Russell look a tad desperate and a sore loser. He is trying to disrupt things, just like Toto is with jumping onto this, all on their own call as well.

Sour grapes, sore losers, blah blah, take your pick on this one.

Do you really think he wanted to just crash into him?

You’re right, we don’t, George also has more points over the course of the season and destroyed Lewis on a Saturday

I have said it before, but all drivers lose their edge, even Alonso, as good as he is now, is nowhere near his peak. There was a podcast that said Hamiltons style naturally doesn't suit the ground effect cars, so there is that as well.

He is still a good driver, but I don't see him as the same driver that he was between 2017-2020 when he was mega fast.