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A global recession is on the horizon - please read OP for mod warning

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,959 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    sme's tend to be far more exposed to so called 'market forces' compared to mnc's, again, state and institutional protections kick in for mnc's in times of economic stress, including bailout protections etc, sme's rarely receive such protections.

    mnc's would have far greater leverage in regards creditors, compared to sme's, with debt right downs being relatively common in the mnc sectors, compared to sme's

    other methods of financialisation such as share buy backs are only truly available to mnc's, this gives great protections to mnc's, allowing them to effectively manipulate their overall value of their stock, again, not available to most sme's

    sme's are far more vulnerable due to these facts, this vulnerability can be of great benefit to much larger mnc's, as outsourcing from mnc's to sme's can in effect further protect mnc's, yet the mnc's ultimately secure more of the profits, and less of the risk

    they really are chalk and cheese, and not comparable at all…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    I couldn't even bring myself to respond to someone who has to wonder what the differences faced are between an SME, with maybe a dozen people vs say Apple or Pfizer both whom have 100k plus workers globally and billions of euro in operations in this state.

    How do you deal with that.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    No they weren't. Some calculations of their effective tax rates were much lower but again that is to do with how they handle transfer pricing between their various entities and where the IP is taxed.

    Of course SMEs are more exposed to market forces. Your whole argument boils down to "big companies are stronger than small companies". That has nothing to do with the State.

    I'm not wondering what the differences faced are, they are quite obviously gigantic. I'm wondering what the supposed state protections available to MNCs but not SMEs are.

    What is being suggested here is significantly larger state intervention for SMEs to try to bring them to a level playing field with MNCs which is ridiculous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,250 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Must change my accountant , my tax bill never was 0.005 % f@#ker is costing me a fortune!-

    The investigation found that Apple paid an effective corporate tax rate of one per cent on its European profits in 2003, which fell to 0.005 per cent in 2014. The country’s official corporate tax rate is 12.5 per cent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,959 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    nothing to do with the state, seriously! state protectionism is the only way these companies exist, as protective measures such as bailouts have existed for decades, without which many of the companies that received this form of state protectionism, would have folded eons ago, for example companies such as boeing and airbus have been bailed out by their respective states multiples of times, i.e. its the only way they have survived

    big companies are so, due to the state and institutional protective measures in place over long periods of time

    again, the majority of the workforce is actually employed in the sme sectors, this is relatively common across the world, as is the case here in ireland, so by not implementing sufficient state protections, similar to other industries such as mnc's, this greatly exposes most employers and employees, it also aids the further concentration of wealth within the mnc sectors, which in turn causes long term highly dysfunctional societal problems, causing severe long term societal and economic instabilities



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yes, because of how Ireland taxed profits earned in other countries. It was related to transfer pricing and how we tax IP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭yagan


    Well the bank guarantee was citizen funded insurance, so yeah, I agree. This carries over into the remaining pillar banks closing branches and pushing customers towards using the state backed An Post franchise. We could have done that back in 08.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 285 ✭✭purplefields


    An SME will have a huge amount of compliance to grapple with. Fine for a MNC to calculate and pay pensions, sick pay, payroll taxes, corp tax, comply with employment law, CSO and any other laws specific to their business. However many SMEs only have a couple of staff, who also actually need to run their business (as well as the compliance work), and maybe see the kids once in a while. All this with Revenue breathing down their necks.

    Even with grants (if there are any) you have to know what boxes to tick. MNCs can easily pay for this information. Much more difficult for SMEs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    What solution are you proposing? Are you suggesting that laws should not apply to SMEs because some of them find it difficult to comply?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭Timing belt


    I don’t think Boeing and airbus are very good examples as both are an extension of USA and EU defence/military machine and as such are regarded as a necessity and hence the bailout/funding.

    What other large companies have been bailout by countries besides the banks etc. which was done to prevent the collapse of the whole financial system and not have people returning to bartering goods.

    Yes there is state intervention with regards multi-nationals whether it was Grants, rezoned land, tax breaks, legislation changes but the same can be said for SME’s when they received rate freezes, warehousing of tax, tax relief and grants for start-ups, exemptions for registering for vat if bellow a threshold or use of cash basis for accounting of vat.

    Are you suggesting that more tax breaks should be given to SME’s? And if so how should it be paid for without reducing the country’s tax base as it is no different to cutting income tax rates.

    Increase in taxes paid by PAYE workers

    Increases in vat

    Cuts to benefits

    Wealth tax



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    This part of the German economy employs, directly, one million and is 200bn a year.

    A 9% drop.

    The German economy and the disaster it is becoming are going to define the next decade.

    The additional woes of the German auto industry are mentioned previously, a sector that is a third of German exports.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,448 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    France economy is not sitting pretty either.

    Remember the shills only get paid when you react to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭timmyntc




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    You want to offer some sort of evidence to back up your statement

    Or is it a “trust me bro” type post while you smoke some herbal plants?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,448 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    Nope I won't offer you any evidence. I will let you find it all by your big boy pants self.

    Remember the shills only get paid when you react to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 460 ✭✭Rooks


    That which can be claimed without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,149 ✭✭✭extra-ordinary_


    Think you missed the point tbh, there is evidence. "Go have a look for it and you'll find it yourself" does not equate to there being zero evidence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62


    I done some internet research and was not able to find any evidence

    So back to asking for the “bro” to backup his claims

    Meanwhile no global recession either to be seen



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 460 ✭✭Rooks




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,149 ✭✭✭extra-ordinary_


    Indeed, I can't read sh1te that makes no sense if that's what you mean.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 285 ✭✭Hontou


    One of my adult kids lives and works in France. They believe confidence is down and something is brewing. I think they are not there long enough to understand there are always strikes imminent in France. Seems stable enough on paper, but that doesn't tell all.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/france/indicators



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,471 ✭✭✭Dick phelan


    Been out of work since mid Oct, work in marketing or Tourism type work but also have experience as an event coordinator. Very thin at the moment, have applied for loads but only got 2 interviews so far. Mate of mine was let go for a cyber security company last week, another friend has had to take a temp job after the SME he was working for closed recently. the job market is not as strong as they let on.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Nobody "let's on" about the job market. There are actual stats about it that a lot of work goes into maintaining.

    Certain sectors will always have localised issues, but unemployment is very low in Ireland - that is just a fact.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,471 ✭✭✭Dick phelan


    We work in 3 completely separate industries and have had similar experiences recently. Sure there are jobs of some description out there but full time, decently paid jobs with progression opportunities seem thin on the ground. Ye I could probably get a part time job in a cafe but that's not what I'm talking about.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,528 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Fair enough. Maybe it is a regional thing or a very unfortunate time limited thing. But unemployment is very low and has been consistently for some time.

    People don't just "let on" about how strong the job market is - there are meticulously collected statistics that is based on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,603 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Any sign of this recession yet? Thread now alive over 2.5yrs and still nothing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,335 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Cyber security is hot these days. Why was he/she let go? Were there others?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,471 ✭✭✭Dick phelan


    Well it's a department within a larger company, but yes 250 let go across the division, not all in Ireland I should add.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Its bloated in most companies because it's been the buzz word for a good few years.

    Plenty of fat to be trimmed!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭j62




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