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Would GAA (football) solve a lot of its problem if it had a single, proper championship?

  • 12-11-2024 05:04PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 500 ✭✭✭


    A lot has been discussed about the proposed new rules for football lately but I believe the whole championship structure should be looked at too. I know they have tinkered with it but more wholesale changes need to be made.

    Currently we have the league, provincial championships and the All-Ireland series.

    The provincial championship are mostly pointless and poor these days. Leinster is a compete joke, Dublin win it all the time and will do for the foreseeable. Pretty much the same state of play for Munster with Kerry. Connacht and Ulster a bit better but still not great. Teams are grouped together by geography not performance and the fact the every province has a different number of teams makes their schedules pretty unbalanced.

    Combine the other two one single championship. This for example: maybe have three divisions, each with two groups of 5/6 teams. Each team plays the other teams twice, home and away and run from February to June, then the knockouts in July and a final early August. Have a balanced schedule of teams with broadly similar ability would make for a more competitive and exciting competition. Still plenty of space to run club fixtures concurrently.

    Dublin won six in-a-row but in reality they only really had to win two or three games at the end of the season and got to play all their matches at home. This and the fact that they're by far the largest county too gives them such a bit advantage. If they had to go Ballybofey or down to Killarney regularly through a championship, it would be a lot more difficult for them and I'm sure they wouldn't have won so many consecutive All-Irelands. Just look at this year's match against Mayo in Hyde Park.

    Really thing it would help the game.



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    It's probably reached a stage where something like this is warranted. The Leinster Championship in particular is an absolute shambles. Zero interest or competitiveness in that province. It's a shame to see that once great competition has been reduced to this joke but this is what the GAA wants it would appears. Fans in Leinster want something else there though, they're voting with their feet and attendances are way down.

    But even amending the Championship structure to put an end to the ridiculous situation in Leinster probably wouldn't be enough to respark interest- the rules have to change to prevent the continued use of the dour, negative style that has become so popular in recent years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 500 ✭✭✭Pixel Eater


    I was at one of the Railway Cup nights a few weeks ago; some of the new rules did help. Football definitely needs some of those rule changes but a reform of the whole championship structure is also needed.

    With competition from other sports, the GAA really needs a package that it can sell to increase its popularity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭randd1


    Simple. Change the basis of the league/Championship.

    Have the National League based on the provinces;

    • Munster - 6 Team Round Robin format. Top two in Munster Final.
    • Connaught - 6 Team Round Robin format (New York are 6th team). Top two in Munster Final.
    • Leinster - 2 groups of 6 (London are 12th team). Top two to SF's, and then Final.
    • Ulster - A bit tricky. One group of 5, and one group of 4. Crossover league, so team in one group play the teams in the other group. Top two to SF's, and then final.
    • Provincial finalists (8 teams) into National League QF's, with provincial winners given home advantage.
    • Teams ranked 3 & 4 (8 teams) in each province into National Cup.
    • All other teams in National Shield competition (as they're knocked out earlier, it can be started the same weekend as the provincial finals).
    • All games are finish on the day, so 10 rounds max until finals. Two rest weeks per team.
    • All three finals played on the same day in festival of football.

    The Championship format will be;

    • 3 tiers of Championship. It's needed at this stage. 12 Team Senior, 10 team Intermediate, 10 team Tailteann Cup. If New York participate in Championship, then Intermediate has one group of 6 and one group of 5.

    • All-Ireland Senior Championship. Two groups of 6. Top team of each group into AISF, team 2 of each group plays teams 3 of other group in QF's. Bottom of each group relegated to Intermediate Championship for the following year. The final groups would look like this.

    Team 1

    Team 1

    All-Ireland SF's

    Team 2

    Team 2

    All-Ireland QF's

    Team 3

    Team 3

    All-Ireland QF’s

    Team 4

    Team 4

    Team 5

    Team 5

    Team 6

    Team 6

    Relegated

    • All-Ireland Intermediate Championship. Two groups of 5 (or one group of 6 and one group of 5 if New York are in the Championship). Top team of each group into AISF, team 2 of each group plays teams 3 of other group in QF's. Both finalists are promoted to Senior for the following year. Bottom of each group relegated to Tailteann Cup for the following year. The final groups would look like this.

    Team 1

    Team 1

    Championship SF's

    Team 2

    Team 2

    Championship QF's

    Team 3

    Team 3

    Championship QF’s

    Team 4

    Team 4

    Team 5

    Team 5

    Relegated

    • Tailteann Cup - Top team of each group into Tailteann Cup SF, team 2 of each group plays teams 3 of other group in QF's. Both finalists are promoted to Intermediate Championship for the following year. The final group would look like the Intermediate above, but with no relegation.

    Going by that format;

    If you had the Round Robin and the SF’s/finals in the provinces, then you’d have max 7 games in the province. A rest week is to be given after week 3, then four more weeks to finish the province is recommended, but leeway would be given to the provincial councils to run their competition as long as they meet the provincial final deadline. Another week off, then the QF’s of the three National League competitions start, and run for 3 weeks. So 12 weeks in total to run it off.

    In each tier of the championship, it would require six weekends to run off each round robin, with one team receiving at least one rest week during the round robin phase. The QF’s are two weeks after the end of the round robin, and the AISF’s are two weeks after that, and the final two weeks after that. In total 12 weeks to run it off.

    In that format, if the All-Ireland final was set for the last Sunday in July, the whole shebang would start around the start of February, and there would be at least three weeks after the league finals until the Championship.

    The calendar would look something like this (going by 2025).

    Saturday

    Sunday

    Week

    Competition Stage

    04-Jan

    05-Jan

    Week 1

    11-Jan

    12-Jan

    Week 2

    18-Jan

    19-Jan

    Week 3

    25-Jan

    26-Jan

    Week 4

    01-Feb

    02-Feb

    Week 5

    Provincial Round 1

    08-Feb

    09-Feb

    Week 6

    Provincial Round 2

    15-Feb

    16-Feb

    Week 7

    Provincial Round 3

    22-Feb

    23-Feb

    Week 8

    29-Feb

    01-Mar

    Week 9

    Provincial Round 4

    07-Mar

    08-Mar

    Week 10

    Provincial Round 5

    14-Mar

    15-Mar

    Week 11

    Provincial Round 6

    21-Mar

    22-Mar

    Week 12

    Provincial Finals

    28-Mar

    29-Mar

    Week 13

    04-Apr

    05-Apr

    Week 14

    National League QF's

    11-Apr

    12-Apr

    Week 15

    National League SF's

    18-Apr

    19-Apr

    Week 16

    National League Finals

    25-Apr

    26-Apr

    Week 17

    02-May

    03-May

    Week 18

    09-May

    10-May

    Week 19

    Round Robin Week 1

    16-May

    17-May

    Week 20

    Round Robin Week 2

    23-May

    24-May

    Week 21

    Round Robin Week 3

    30-May

    31-May

    Week 22

    Round Robin Week 4

    06-Jun

    07-Jun

    Week 23

    Round Robin Week 5

    13-Jun

    14-Jun

    Week 24

    Round Robin Week 6

    20-Jun

    21-Jun

    Week 25

    27-Jun

    28-Jun

    Week 26

    Championship QF's

    04-Jul

    05-Jul

    Week 27

    11-Jul

    12-Jul

    Week 28

    Championship SF's

    18-Jul

    19-Jul

    Week 29

    25-Jul

    26-Jul

    Week 30

    Championship Finals

    Worth a shot at least.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭randd1


    Barring that, the most obvious one is;

    Senior - 12 team round robin, top two to AISF's, teams 3-6 to AIQF's, bottom two relegated.

    Intermediate - 11/10 Teams round robin, top two to SF's, teams 3-6 to QF's, bottom two relegated.

    Tailteann Cup - 10 Teams round robin, top two to SF's, teams 3-6 to QF's.

    National Cup - Straight knockout, finish on the day Cup competition run on traditional provincial lines, ran alongside early stage of the championship.

    The calendar would look something like this (going by 2025);

    Saturday

    Sunday

    Week

    Competition Stage

    04-Jan

    05-Jan

    Week 1

    11-Jan

    12-Jan

    Week 2

    18-Jan

    19-Jan

    Week 3

    25-Jan

    26-Jan

    Week 4

    01-Feb

    02-Feb

    Week 5

    Round Robin Week 1

    08-Feb

    09-Feb

    Week 6

    Provincial First Round

    15-Feb

    16-Feb

    Week 7

    Round Robin Week 2

    22-Feb

    23-Feb

    Week 8

    Provincial QF's

    29-Feb

    01-Mar

    Week 9

    Round Robin Week 3

    07-Mar

    08-Mar

    Week 10

    14-Mar

    15-Mar

    Week 11

    Round Robin Week 4

    21-Mar

    22-Mar

    Week 12

    Provincial QSF's

    28-Mar

    29-Mar

    Week 13

    Round Robin Week 5

    04-Apr

    05-Apr

    Week 14

    Provincial Finals

    11-Apr

    12-Apr

    Week 15

    Round Robin Week 6

    18-Apr

    19-Apr

    Week 16

    25-Apr

    26-Apr

    Week 17

    Round Robin Week 7

    02-May

    03-May

    Week 18

    Cup SF's

    09-May

    10-May

    Week 19

    Round Robin Week 8

    16-May

    17-May

    Week 20

    Cup Final

    23-May

    24-May

    Week 21

    Round Robin Week 9

    30-May

    31-May

    Week 22

    06-Jun

    07-Jun

    Week 23

    Round Robin Week 10

    13-Jun

    14-Jun

    Week 24

    Round Robin Week 11

    20-Jun

    21-Jun

    Week 25

    27-Jun

    28-Jun

    Week 26

    All-Ireland QF's

    04-Jul

    05-Jul

    Week 27

    11-Jul

    12-Jul

    Week 28

    All-Ireland SF's

    18-Jul

    19-Jul

    Week 29

    25-Jul

    26-Jul

    Week 30

    All-Ireland Final



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 500 ✭✭✭Pixel Eater


    Those are great suggestions too, the same timeline as I suggested. I'd just scrape the provinces, or maybe just run them entirely separately. The All-Ireland finals should be pushed into August, July is too early to finish-up IMO.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    @randd1 your proposals wouldn't be very helpful. They both still leaves the shambles that is the Leinster Championship intact which benefits nobody- people just don't want to watch it anymore, it's beyond a joke. And there are too many matches, with too many mismatches and not enough high-stakes games.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 500 ✭✭✭Pixel Eater


    A proper break is also needed, November to February. There should be no fixtures - club or county - beyond early November.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,936 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    A 32 team open draw championship has always been the logical format, it would generate far more interest and be far more memorable than any of these bastardised formats we have to suffer through these days.

    Hell, even the draws for each round would generate more interest than most intercounty games these days.

    And it will never happen because it wouldn't make as much money.

    Such a shame that maximising revenue is seemingly the point of the sport these days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    We should have an american style system i.e just one competition league phase followed by playoffs.

    For football you could have 2 divisions of 16 (only the top 16 can win the all ireland) , and play say 10 league phase games followed by QF,SF and Finals.

    All teams don't necessarily have to play the exact same schedule (like american sports) and the top 6/8 teams qualify for the quarter finals, and bottom 3 are relegated and the 4th bottom plays a playoff against 4th place in the second tier.

    Same sort of scenario for hurling except maybe have 3 divisions and again top 4/5 qualify for knockout round and only bottom 2 relegated.

    I think people actually enjoy having regular flow of games on constantly I think it becomes a habit for people both attending and watching on TV.

    You could run the championship season from St Patricks day to early August and that would give plenty of time and would also allow time for the clubs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,522 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Players and coaches want and deserve more than straight knock out. Create more interest I doubt it and more memorable? Unlikely.

    It won't happen as you can't have your top players playing so few games in the biggest draw you have. Doing that doesn't sell the gaa or gaelic enough and that's nothing to do with selling in terms of money but interest etc



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,514 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    I’d love to see an open championship , and Dublin split into 2 , at least for a year or two . Playing teams that would rarely meet might add a bit of excitement



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,936 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Yeah, it was never memorable before all the super 8 nonsense, nobody had any interest at all back in the day when it was knockout football…

    And don't pretend its nothing to do with money while in the same breath you talk about selling the GAA enough.

    Fact is you have the same blind spot that most of the GAA seemingly has these days. You don't seem to get the old maxim that "Less is more".

    Less games with higher stakes that mean infinitely more will always be more interesting and more memorable than all the bullshit multi-game 2nd and 3rd chance formats that generate no passion whatsoever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,156 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Playing teams that would rarely meet might add a bit of excitement

    Since the arrival of the 2001 back door there is very little of this playing teams you would rearly anymore.

    Mayo have meet Tipp at least three times since then, and two were All Ireland semi finals.

    Mayo didn't play Tipp for decades before that.

    Kerry have played Longford twice.

    It's really all over the map since 2001



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,514 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    The more the better . An open championship with quarter finals in CP would reinvigorate the all Ireland



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭gaffer91




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,459 ✭✭✭megadodge


    Whether revenue is an issue or not, you are being very disingenuous in pretending the players' opinions had nothing to do with the change.

    The very reason the non-knockout variations were introduced was because players were (rightly) complaining that in a straight KO system at least half the players in the country get to play one game of football in the best time of the year for playing. Thankfully those in power listened to the players, not traditionalists.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    Amazingly and as per your previous form you completely refuse to mention the shambles that is Munster football !! People don't want that anymore , it's also beyond a joke .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    I would hate to see Dublin split in 2 , would love to see Kerry split in 2 though !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭dunnerc




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    That post focused on the Leinster Championship because it's become an absolute shambles. Has been for many years, everybody knows it. Nobody is benefiting from it- not the players, not the backroom staff, not the supporters, not the GAA. Look at the attendances this year and the trend in recent years- way down on previous, very little public interest even from longterm avid supporters.

    Any reforms to the GAA have to recognise this reality and have concrete steps in place to address the current shambles and improve the prestige, integrity and fairness of the Leinster Championship. That's why I included in my response to the proposed reforms in that post. It does nothing to address the Leinster Championship as it currently exists so the reforms just won't work.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    The Allianz League is a balanced and consistent format. Hard to move away from that.

    Personally I think that provincial championship draws should use league placing for balanced draws.

    Regards the All-Ireland championship, we'll most likely have to wait until 2026 to see if the double elimination old styled Christy Ring cup format is the long-term solution.

    The GAA's favoured format is as follows...

    Round 1: 8 Provincial finalists drawn against 8 qualifiers (7 league qualifiers and Tailteann winner).

    Round 2A: 8 Round 1 winners.

    Round 2B: 8 Round 1 losers.

    Round 3: 4 Round 2A losers drawn against 4 Round 2B winners.

    Quarter-finals: 4 Round 2A winners drawn against 4 Round 3 winners.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    You are still ignoring, the Munster Championship has always been an absolute shambles , every one knows this , and likewise nobody is benefiting from it - not the players , backroom staff , supporters etc , attendances are down all over the Country but as usual you ignore Munster , we all know were this is going and what you are up too , 14 years of this nonsense !!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,514 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    Get rid of counties and roughly make new areas the same . No surprise that big counties win al Irelands

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish_counties_by_population



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    The Munster and Leinster championships rarely throw up a contested final these days. Ulster usually has a contested final. Connacht has if Mayo, Galway and Roscommon are not on one side of the draw.

    Munster and Connacht would benefit from seeding their draws based on league. Kerry and Cork would then be on opposite sides. Clare and Limerick were challenging Cork in Division 2 not so long ago. League ranking 1 to 32 is balanced and fair.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    The League is good in terms of low numbers of mismatches but people enjoy knockout competitions too, and like it or not, the Championship has been the more prestigious competition historically. Most sports have a mix of knockout and league competitions also. While your proposal has merit, I think that as it doesn't get rid of the Provincials, it won't address some of the big issues with the format.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    Leinster is far, far worse than Munster these days. It's not even close given how much of a shambles Leinster has become. Interest and attendance is in the gutter. I don't think the Leinster Championship can be retrieved and we can't just get rid of one Provincial, if we're taking steps to rectify the dire situation in Leinster, it will have to apply to all Provinces. Seeding is probably welcome if we're really committed to not scrapping the Provincials, but do you really think seeding will make any difference whatsoever in improving the Leinster Championship? I don't think so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    Population is definitely a big, big factor but we'll have to have a good format that engages players and supporters no matter what. The current Championship structure just doesn't do that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    No i disagree Munster is every bit a shambles as Leinster , One County domination for over a century is ridiculous and is beyond retrievable , seeding 100% will not make any difference in improving the shambles that has been allowed to go on in Munster Championship .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    Seeding will stop Clare only having to beat Tipperary or Waterford to qualify for the All Ireland series.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    Well, ideally the top two Leinster performers in the league would be on opposite sides of the draw. If the rest have a low league ranking and aren't making a Leinster final, they'll be in the Tailteann Cup which will be appropriate for their level to look at making incremental improvements.



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