Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

There you go with 45,000 innocent civilians again. No Hamas killed in this war!

I do know how the ICC works. Are you a legal professional?

A terrorist organisation that was voted into power for some bizarre reason by the Palestinians with a mandate to destroy Israel.

Bibi on the other, due to the fractured nature of current Israeli politics, formed a government that took quite a large percentage of the Israeli population by surprise.

Hamas on the other hand are the peoples's choice. 44% is a huge percentage to secure in an election.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of using religious fanaticism to criticise one side as if the other side is completely free from it. Absolutely ridiculous post.

(As an aside, no I do not agree with what's currently happening in Gaza so you can put your dead nun statistics away)

This is just another example of the standard Hamas supporter tactics on here.

You deny that you support them in one post, but immediatedly jump to their defence in the next 20.

There was nothing inevitable about OCT 7th, or electing Hamas to power 20 years earlier. These are all choices.

After 75 years of losing war after war, it's the Palestinians who need to finally learn the leasson. There will be no glorious return of the 'Nakba' dispossessed, no defeat if israel, no Palestine from the river to the sea. That's all just bullcrap.

It's time to be realistic and get on with. Surrender. Release hostages. Peace agreement. Build a country.

Bibi has little to no interest in Gaza, so the land grab remark is wrong.

Speaking of choices;

Israelis chose to return the accused war criminal Nethanyu to power over much of the last 24 years. A man who aided Hamas according to the Times of Israel. Who has stated there will no two state solution under his watch- which is why he likely assisted Hamas until it backfired spectacularly on him. There will be no peace agreement as long as he and his motley crew of far right headbangers and Likud are in power either.

So it could be said both sides chose badly over the years. Also If posters are going to accuse others of supporting terrorism why don't pro Israeli posters call themselves out for supporting state terrorism.

Is it up for debate as to whether collective punishment is a form of state terrorism? We know it is official IDF policy according to a former Senior IDF Official. I suspect there would be no debate or reluctance on the matter if I substituted Russia for Israel and was talking about their collective punishment of Ukranian civilians.

surrender is not possible as it's not a war but a genocide and there is only 1 actual recognised army.
the hostages are highly likely dead, killed by israel itself, they would have been released long ago but for israel's refusal to have them released.
a peace agreement and building a country is not possible as genocidal racist sectarian apartheid israel want as much land from their neighbours as they can get hold of.
it's time to be realistic, israel must go back within it's borders as set in 1948, return all stolen lands, stop causing trouble for it's neighbours, stop funding international terrorism.
the palestinians don't need to learn any lesson, it's israel who do and that lesson is, start respecting it's neighbours and respect and be greatful to the hand that is feeding and keeping them afloat which is the american tax payer.
and the other western politicians who are supporting them dispite being out of touch and against their public's wishes.

Really? Preceding 2 posts were 'Israel should surrender.'

Hint: Won't happen. Nor will Israel go back to 1948 borders.

Israel's won this war, it's Hamas with its head cut off still thrashing around. This is how wars work, there's holdouts fighting to the death. Death is coming.

The only way the 70k claim could be correct is if everyone killed in their home in a German bombing raid was a civilian and not a soldier on leave or retired.

The 45k figure is nonsense anyway as it only includes verified death. Bodies buried under rubble or shredded to dust won't have been counted. It is highly likely that the real number is at least higher by a greater number than even the largest estimate of the number of pre genocide Hamas "fighters"

Nope, just want the hostages to be returned. I think when this thread started, that was my position and it's still the same. Hamas has categorically LOST. Surrender and give up the hostages. Really quite simple.

Didn't listen to Netanyahu's speech. In fact, I don't believe I ever had, or read one. Not as much a follower of him as some on this thread.

According to a US Intelligence assessment, while hamas have been severely weakened, they have not lost- if lost means being completely eradicated.

The new leader of Hamas(Sinwar's brother) is still alive , and according to this assessment, Hamas has morphed into a hit and run insurgency with plenty of new recruits to call on. Which could be why the IDF seem to be repeatedly going back into areas they say have been cleared.

The final conclusion seemed to be that a political solution is needed to sideline Hamas in the long run. The only problem is Likud and their ilk don't really want the Islamists to be sidelined longer term because they help to maintain the status quo- something Bibi has admitted to previously. It would be better for citizens on both sides if both Likud, the far right Israelis, and Hamas are all removed from power.

70% of the dead being women and children is overstepping the mark allright.

Nukes are not a great weapon in a knife fight.

Knives aren't a great weapon in a nuke fight either

So why is he so keen to be seen holding it up?

The nasty little hamas apologists rushing to justify the death of the hostages already i wonder if any of them will get out alive now ? seems unlikely

every thing from blaming them for getting captured to blaming the IDF for trying to get them back , how about the dirtball terrorists who raped ad pillaged across the land like a mediaeval hoard . thankfully a lot of them are dead now