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Hamas strike on Israel

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    I would say that they are in the exact opposite position to Putin regarding conducting a defence of their actions.

    Putin launched an unprovoked invasion with no justification whatsover for it. Israel, on the other hand, were the victims of a murderous illegal invasion and are acting in self-defence.

    Israel and Ukraine are both proud Democracy's under assault, one by a despot, and the other by a Terrorist enclave with significant military capability.

    I support the Democracy's, although not with blanket approval, of course.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    The only way that statement could be correct is if everyone killed in Gaza is a civilian, and not a single Hamas fighter has died.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,095 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    They are in the exact same position as Hamas and Putin as being in the dock for war crimes and crimes against Humanity. That is a fact. That will damage their reputation for years like the two other parties and was totally unnecessary. Why you support this I dont know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    It wasn't Israel who forced Hamas to conduct a war hiding amongst their own people for cover.

    Hamas relishes those very deaths as propganda, and calls them martyrs.

    I would balme Hamas for every single one of those deaths.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,096 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I doubt it.

    I'm personally surprised that the warrents were issued, but, Israel isn't party to the ICC, so, whether people like it or not, this is only an accusation, and the case is never likely to be argued in court. If it is, I would assume that they would make a very robust defence of their position. That's just the reality.

    If you knew how the ICC worked, you wouldn't be surprised at all that warrants (note spelling) were issued. And whether Israel is party to the Rome Statute is irrelevant - you might do a bit of research and see why that is.

    And yes, as you say, I actually agree with you. Its all relative. Whether Gallant or Netanyahu ever end up in the Hague, they will forever be remembered for murdering over 45,000 innocent civilians. Israel will forever be stained with those deaths and the ICJ will of course rule on whether that amounts to Genocide.

    I doubt very much 44% of Palestinians who voted for Hamas (19 years ago) will eclipse the above. In fact, your post will probably be the only time that equivalency has or ever will be mentioned.

    But do keep on justifying Israel and their murder of women and children (31,500 so far and counting).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    There has been a markedly different response to the Israel ICC warrent than to Putin and Hamas, especially in the US, UK, France, Germany, etc, and for good reason, I would say.

    Isreal is entitled to defend itself by international law. Whether they have overstepped the mark is up for debate, and you can't honestly saw otherwise.

    Does the allegation damage Bibi? I'm reminded of what a judge said to the daughter of PeeWee Flynn when she sued a newspaper for damage to her reputation, 'You have no reputation left to defend'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,029 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Of course you would. It's the Israeli/Zionist way. Blame the victims. Israel has been killing and stealing land for 75 years but it's the Palestinians fault. The ICJ didn't issue arrest warrants for nothing. Genocidal nation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    But according to you this war began long before OCT 7th. That the Israeli's even had a plan going back 40 years for the extermination of the Palestinians.

    How did you find the racism in Gaza? Any anti-semitism there, or did you miss all that too?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,095 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    They haven't questioned the warrant, just whether they will arrest Netanyahu. Im not sure why you are arguing international law against the International Court that deals with war crimes. There will be only ever be one winner there. Self defence does not defend against crimes against humanity.

    Its not Bibi's reputation that is damaged, it is Israel's as it is their soldiers that are committing these crimes. The "only following orders" defence hasnt held up for many years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭sheepysheep


    So, Hamas are victims. At least you came out and said it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,869 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    I am not surprised the warrants were issued. The Judges after reviewing the evidence obviously determined there is a case to answer for both Hamas and Israel.

    If Bibi and Gallant are so assured they are innocent of the charges they and their legal counsel should go and defend themselves at the court.

    Would you class the commentary on Russia in Ukraine as painting Russia in a bad light and one sided? Perhaps we could discuss Putin's and his country's good points instead of all the one sided commentary that seeks to portray Russia and Putin in a bad light.

    As for the situation in Lebanon it is in the interest of of both sides to accept a ceasefire at this stage because the reality is if it didn't suit both parties they would not be agreeing to a ceasefire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,029 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,096 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I blame the 2000lb bombs dropped by Israel. And the IDF who killed their own surrendering hostages, nuns, and sheep and left neonates rot in an ICU.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,096 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    You said you were au fait with the ICC. Clearly you aren't. You're apparently not even au fait with the criminal justice system.

    Isreal is entitled to defend itself by international law. Whether they have overstepped the mark is up for debate, and you can't honestly saw otherwise

    Whether they have overstepped the mark is most certainly not "up for debate". Unless you think the ICC is some sort of debating society?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,190 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    So you're saying that Hamas attacked on Oct 7th, at a cost of several thousand of their own men, but just a couple of days later they were prepared to suck that up and just release the hostages??

    Why would they sacrifice thousands of their men just to give back the hostages after a couple of days?

    Of course the truth is that they almost certainly did intend to give them back - in fact that was probably one of the main points of the operation - but at an exchange rate similar to previous exchanges of captives, namely several hundred or maybe a thousand Palestinians for each Israeli. And of course, crucially, keeping their capacity to launch a new attack in the future as well.

    I'm sure if you think very, very hard about that, you can see why it would have been reckless for Israel to accept those terms. Consider, for instance that Yahya Sinwar, who planned the Oct 7th attack had been released in just such an exchange in the past.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,190 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    How many Germans voted for Hitler? Yet he won the election - much like Hamas did in fact.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,662 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Glad there is a ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah. Hezbollah has been severely dented as a threat now.

    Hopefully, we can have a ceasefire between Hamas and Israel now. Just release the hostages and you have a ceasefire. Easy!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,096 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I've no idea how many Germans voted for Hitler. I'm not sure what point you're making?

    Unless you're somehow equating Hitler with the current Israeli action which actually would have relevancy in the context of Genocide?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,095 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Putin was elected too. Can't forget Putin when talking about Bibi 😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,029 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Like the Israelis voted for Bibi the War Criminal.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,029 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Is Bibi finished with his Genocide attempt though? Will he stop the land grabbing and criminal treatment of Palestinians?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,190 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Oh I'm pretty sure you do know. You said that only 44% of Gazan voters voted for Hamas in the last vote that Hamas held after they took power. Similarly, the Nazis only tallied 43.9% of the vote in the last – more or less – free election before WW2. That didn't mean that Germans got a pass for everything the Nazis did either.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,876 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Nothing about Hamas doing the same, either. Funny, that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,095 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Hamas are scumbags and deserve to be in the same dock as Bibi. I don't support war criminals unlike some here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,876 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    The Hamas leadership victims living in luxury in Qatar? Those victims?

    Do you blame them for this war?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,095 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Yes I blame them for the war. But those participating in war crimes are guilty, and that includes both hamas and Israel now. Do you agree?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,029 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    The Palestinian people are the victims in all this. Do you think those 20,000 children were at fault?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,029 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Hamas are a terrorist organisation and Deif has a warrant against him too and deservedly so. Just like Netanyahu and Gallant. He's in great company.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,096 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    Well, that's a stretch - you know that I know all about German elections what, 90 years or so ago? (see I don't even have a notion of when those elections were).

    But your post has nothing to do with the discussion I was having with another poster - and you appear to have totally missed the context.

    So once again, I have no idea why you are posting what you're posting to me, in the context of a discussion with another poster.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,096 ✭✭✭dmcdona


    I thought Israel already defeated Hamas? That's what they said. So why the need for a ceasefire?

    And why would Israel want the hostages released? They could have released them months ago - but no, they abandoned them and their families instead.

    I guess that's the modus operandi of War Criminals.



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