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Why do companies want to return to the office?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,540 ✭✭✭RedXIV


    They may not be their responsibility, but it's no secret now that Dublin is incredibly hard to find accommodation in for people coming to the country for skilled job and all of these things affect how attractive companies can be to talent. We're seeing it now in our place that the secret is out that they want us in the office more, our recruiter can't get the staff now. We weren't offering MNC salaries but the culture was good and the remote work was there. With that gone, why would I stay in a company that pays under the MNC rate? If I have to go to the office, I may as well make 50% more with one of the big names.

    It's honestly a stupid move of a company that is trying to take talent from the big names in tech to NOT bring in WFH because it's an easy way to differentiate yourself from the alternatives and those (like me) are happy to take a hit to stay at home



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭GHendrix



    They certainly act like it is their responsibility and lots of them use climate change to try get good press

    Statement from Amazon a few years back: We set these ambitious targets because we know that climate change is a serious problem and action is needed now more than ever. As part of our goal to reach net zero carbon by 2040, Amazon is on a path to powering our operations with 100% renewable energy by 2025”


    Now in 2025 they want staff back in the office 5 days a week. And I’m fairly certain they know well that the impact of those staff returning to offices full time will dwarf any green initiatives they might have.

    Ultimately the government should be pressuring them more to make it their responsibility but they won’t because they’re afraid to



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,636 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Well I suppose climate initiatives, energy conservation, DE&I and similar schemes are always first to get cut when budgets are tight.

    Companies dont give two figs about them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,291 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    For sure it was mutually beneficial.

    But I expect many people hoped their flexibility would be reflected in employers being more flexible going forward. Well they've had a reality check.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,897 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Yes and no.

    The headlines are always about 'company X forcing people back to the office' but the vast majority of people I know are still on WFH or hybrid arrangements.

    The OP on this very thread is not about going to the office full-time but about one day per week, and he's really, really angry about it.

    Is is inflexible or unreasonable for an employer to want people on site one day per week?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,285 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    I think the reason people get annoyed about return to office is when there is no obvious benefit being stated to anybody for people going back to office. People have been WFH for years now and if the company has been managing well and performing well and staff have been working well, what's the reason to bring people in? If the company can outline what the valid reason is, then cool. If not, then it's reasonable to get annoyed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭C3PO


    I clearly remember similar threads on here during and towards the end of COVID with lots of posters claiming that office work was a thing of the past and that employees should even be able to claim additional pay because they were saving their employer rent etc!
    I was roundly abused for suggesting that many employers would look to get people back into the office when things settled back down …. and so it has proved!
    For many (most?) businesses and roles, collocation of staff in an office for at least part of the week is viewed as being the ideal solution. Measuring productivity when people are working remotely is extremely difficult for many roles and collaboration and mentoring undoubtedly suffers in a fully remote scenario.
    Our company has arrived at a compromise of 2-3 days a week on-site and I believe that that is reasonable and workable solution for most? And I speak as someone who moved 125kms from the office last year!
    And at the end of the day, one always has the option of moving jobs if the T&Cs of the current one don’t suit!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,897 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Again, it's one day per week.

    I'll bet any amount of money that the OP's employer has indeed explained why they want people in for 1 day per week, he just doesn't want to do it.

    And again, the key thing here is - if you don't like the T&C of your job, you hold all the aces here, you can just walk out.

    And as a manager, if I had an employee with such a visceral response to a pretty reasonable request, my first reaction would be "hmmm, what's going on with this guy that he's so unwilling to come in?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,291 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Can't speak for everyone. Most of the people I know have had their days in the office increased but still have a few days wfh. For me it's still better than 5 days in the office.

    Though I will say mostly I've no reason to be in the office. Though I don't mind being in the office, it's just the commute is a pita. Because the train can be jammed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭GHendrix


    Im not sure I ever said that I am really really angry about it. I’m baffled.

    They did give a company wide reason. Seeing people face to face is good and collaboration.

    The problem is it’s a very global company. Most people have colleagues all over Europe, AMER and APAC.

    We go to the office but we don’t collaborate. We go on zoom calls from the office. Usually a lot of fighting for meeting rooms. Often end up cancelling or delaying important meetings if no rooms are free.

    It’s a huge waste of my time to head in but if it’s what the company want then fair enough.

    The thing that’s hard to understand is why.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭jackboy


    It's not hard to understand, it's simply down to lack of trust and they think they will have better control if people are on site.

    The reasons they (and pretty much every company) give are just lies that management and HR concocted so ignore that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,097 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    By EU law your commute is part of your working day when asked to present somewhere outside of your standard place of employment.

    Not sure how that works with those once a week/month in the office jobs though.



  • Posts: 353 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You touch on something very valid there. Our place is also doing the back to work, for me its not an issue as its nearby and we have a full time childminder who does what ever drop off are needed but someone who will be impacted raised a very valid question, since we have the WFH people are very flexible logging on late at night and early morning to suit time zones / calendars. People were ok doing this because they got the flexibility during the day do some errands.

    Companies cant have their cake and eat it, they cant continue to expect flexibility that suits them (which is out of contract) if they dont show it in return.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Homesick Alien


    Yeah but that's on an exceptional basis eg we need you work from the Belfast office 2 days a week for the next month. Most people's contracts will specify the office as their primary place of work with some flexibility allowed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,291 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    My memory, is that it's not usually phrased like that, it's flexibility solely on the employees part to facilitate the business…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,291 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I'm certainly unable to be as flexible when commuting, as I can when WFH. Thats the trade off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,291 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Kinda tone deaf not to realise that people won't be flexible back if they aren't respected by being shown the same flexibility in response.

    If it was people's experience that coming into the office was for valid reasons they'd mostly just do it.

    Too often being asked into the office (or meetings for that matter) is a tick box exercise, by someone who thinks that's putting ticks in boxes gets things done. As opposed to actually getting things done..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,897 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Like, looking back at the very first post. We're talking about 1 day per week.

    So, it's very clear that the guy's employer sees the value in letting people work from home and thinks they can do the job effectively from there. But the employer also sees some value in having face-to-face interaction and collaboration. The split is 80-20 in favour of WFH.

    Companies insisting on a full return to office is a very different scenario but in this particular instance, the employer is being reasonable and flexible, it's the employee who is being unreasonable and inflexible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,291 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    With respect you flip flopped between the OPs very specific example and sweeping generalisation.

    The OP explained in his first post why its completely redundant for them to be in the office.

    It's a tick box exercise. If the company wants you to waste a day on that kind of unproductive activity they totally can. So the OP has just has to accept it. But let's not pretend it's productive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,187 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Being productive isnt just about sitting at your desk beavering away, it can come in many forms, collaboration in group meetings is one. Sometimes people cant look beyond the end of their nose.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,897 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    when I spoke about my own experience and that of most of my friends, your response was “I can’t speak for everyone”, so I thought a more specific example might help.

    One day per week is absolutely reasonable and flexible. Every job will always have disgruntled and disruptive employees, it’s a fool’s errand trying to please everyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭GHendrix


    I don’t believe I am being unreasonable or inflexible. I go into the office 1 day a week as required. I just question why.

    Collaboration in the company is always digital. It’s zoom and slack regardless of my physical location.

    There’s no benefit for me to travel to the office other than to tick the box.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,291 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    A sweeping generalisation about your friends and my experience is a different thing to a specific example from the OP.

    Theres is a difference between coming onto the office one day for some useful purpose and coming into the office for one day to do exactly the same thing you do remotely. As in sit in remote meetings and calls all day.

    That seems common sense no?

    For my part I feel the days in the office are enabling my remote days. I just have to accept that. I have more flexibility than most.

    I wish that my days in the office were used for networking or something different than I do remotely. But they aren't. I do like being in the office. But in my experience the one claiming it's better for communication are brutal at communicating in the office aswell. That's just my experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,291 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I'd suggest you create some value in it for yourself. For your own mindset.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,390 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Sometimes, unfortunately, ticking the box is a requirement……..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,321 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I'm fully remote, was remote before and during covid so am remaining fully remote.

    That being said, my current company is bringing in "encouraged" RTO, and if they require 1 day a week I don't think that's unreasonable.

    My problem is, I'm less productive in the office and it takes me 2 hours each way to commute. So I just do a half day on the office day and add hours the rest of the week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Group meetings are a notorious way to waste a ton of time with no benefit. The more people in a meeting I find the less is achieved. In my experience 3 people is the max number for a meeting to be effective.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭blue_blue


    With 50K posts, I pretty much know what you "do" from home. Don't come @ me. Not dealing with your hardline WFH tripe. ("Ooooh, I get MOAR done!" Cry baby.)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 208 ✭✭blue_blue


    "not based on productivity"

    Where are you getting that from? If the Google and Amazons of this world thought they'd make more money by having everyone WFH fulltime, they'd be the first to do it. The fact they are says it all really, remote work is hitting their profits.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,898 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    I never said wfh fulltime did I? I have friends in Google they don't WFH full-time...it is a blended approach depending on role, one of my friends is 3 at home 2 in the office.

    Plenty of studies available indicate people are just as productive if not more so in a blended working environment, plus a lot of other benefits like lack of sick leave, happier staff, staff retention rates improving, savings made on office facilities etc.

    I am also talking from plenty of personal experience. Obviously it depends hugely on the job. I lead large scale ICT projects with people in a number of countries so a lot of time on conference calls etc, I have plenty of KPIs indicating my team are far more productive and we definitely have far less turnover than when we had work from office fulltime.



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