Why do companies want to return to the office?

kowloonkev

You're replying to a general point with your own personal experience. It is kinda amazing to see so many highly motivated people working in perfect companies in one thread on boards.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122927930#Comment_122927930

Actually he was asking what's the point of it. Rather than engaging meaningfully in that discussion many seem to prefer to revert saying things like "grumpy lads moaning".

This thread isn't solely about the OP, people have broadened it to corporates like Amazon and that is hardly a "few people".

My answer is companies do it because they can, they don't have bother justifying it, so they don't. People have the choice of moving if they don't like it.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122928269#Comment_122928269

So your theory is people are going to be LESS tired having to spend 50+ hours a week driving and travelling.

Your second preference is people who make things take longer and harder at work, making everyone's live harder.

Each to their own..

Trampas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122928269#Comment_122928269

What about the people who get up at 6 and do an hour exercise and then ready to work for 7:30 compared to the ones sleeping on buses and trains

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122927546#Comment_122927546

Nobody said workers are being watched 100% of the time in the office, but you don't even have to try and hide it at home. The article says she illegally accessed thousands of accounts. The quicker you can carry out the fraudulent transaction, the more damage you can do.

That said, it's not like employers haven't always been aware of this risk, or that many people are stupid enough to do it/think they'll get away with it for long.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122932206#Comment_122932206

If you're not watching them, how does being in the office help at all. They just take photos of their work screen, or write the information down, or copy the data down somewhere, or email it out of the company. Most data breeches are done in the office.

Its going to take a very long time to go through thousands of records taking photos of them. That the system allowed them to access thousands of records, when they didn't have any reason to access them is where the failure is.

Well there's still gonna be far more visibility of what people are up to in the office, where smartphones can be banned. It's obviously easier at home. I'm not saying I think we should therefore all return to the office full time (I think the opposite), just comparing the two environments in response to that article.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122932493#Comment_122932493

The visibility from being in the office implies watching. If its not 100% then its utterly flawed.

Also means banning any phone with a camera from the office. So you'll have police that aswell. Pouches for everyone.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122928462#Comment_122928462

Wow it's gone up from 10 hours a week to 50. That certainly emphasises your point.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122928694#Comment_122928694

Read my first post again. Companies can't make decisions based on what one or two employees do. They have to make decisions based on what most do. Most don't get up at 6 for a run, and most don't live two hours drive from work. Just excuse after excuse for the minority.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122927900#Comment_122927900

We're not all stuck on the M50 every morning like idiots.

Your commute is your problem. You choose where you live and your choose where you work. It's an employees responsibility to present themselves at work on time.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122932613#Comment_122932613

So not disagreeing with it so.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122932617#Comment_122932617

You're arguing for less efficiency. Work harder not smarter.

Average commuting time is 0.5hrs. That's with people WFH. Be worse if they weren't. That means a lot of people commute a lot longer.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122933126#Comment_122933126

Public transport is hardly 100% reliable or quick. Employers are constantly complaining they can't get staff. Like lemmings they locate in places where it's hard to commute too. Often because it's in the middle of gridlock. They've created their own problem.

It's economics 101 to locate beside a suitable workforce and good transport links. Being in the center of a congested city with poor public transport is not a smart move if your workforce have to commute around it. A good way to reduce congestion and improve public transport is WFH and flexible hours.

Instead employers want people back in 9-5 making all those problems far worse. It's stupid. It's the opposite of efficiency. It's like 100 people trying to get through the same door at the same time.

LimeFruitGum

I learned at a former employer, that our office rent in Dublin was around €220k p.a.. It was after lockdowns and people still weren't coming in if they could help it. I was reporting to the MD who worked from home in the Netherlands, and travelled a lot. They decorated the office in the new logo's colours, revamped the place so everyone below director-level now had to hotdesk. People were up in arms because there was no guaranteed desk anymore. Anyone visiting from another site couldn't be guaranteed space either. If you're seen using the badminton table or fussball, it doesn't go down well either.

So now only 3-5 people come in daily, I'm told, out of a pool of ~100 Dublin staff and that office revamp was all a big waste. Some more will come in to show their face once-twice a week. What does it say about a company's culture that only ~3% of staff want to go there daily. IIRC they were stuck with the lease for another few years and that's why they were really pushing hard for people to come back for 3 days a week.

I went on to work at an org in the IFSC. While I was there, I remember seeing an email that said only 10-15% of employees ever come in per day, so they decided to relinquish a floor, so staff would have to hotdesk from the remaining 3 floors.

So even with a city centre location and free lunch perks, people still didn't come in. Nobody would talk to you when you were there, so why bother. Whoever I worked with was always at home down the country or abroad.

AnnieinDundrum

a real positive for my employer has been that WFH has enabled them to attract people who were not interested in moving to Dublin. We have staff in cork, limerick, Donegal. Great talented people with skill sets we needed.

sure we could have enticed them… with enough money.. but that was not feasible. Salaries of €150 wfh… would have had to offer a hell of a lot more to get them to Dublin. Possibly about double…. Then the same for the dozen or already doing similar jobs?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122933126#Comment_122933126

Its becoming an employer as much as an employee problem. It impossible to put the genie back in the bottle. Employees have got a taste for working for home in jobs that can do this. Some employee are conscience and some not just like in the office.

cute geoge

I might have some civil service wfh lined up ,but I find manager is constantly ringing,emailing ,zoom calling every one working for home,basically trying to smother them with work ,my plan would be to in a long call with another work mate so I might be able to get a few of my jobs around the house done

I dont see any other way of getting around it

AnnieinDundrum

large team meetings where people are presenting updates on irrelevant topics and online webinars are an opportunity to do something simple like load the washing machine, 3 minute tasks. But these are minor welcome breaks and fairly rare, for me anyway. Back in the day I’d have been sitting in a meeting room attending the same thing or wrt the webinars trekking across the city to attend the same material presented in a hotel room somewhere.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122933206#Comment_122933206

Average commuting times do not include people who don't commute. Christ on a bike.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122944889#Comment_122944889

Some studies suggest WFH reduces average commuting time by as much as 20%. Less traffic, shorter commute times for everyone. It's like the day when there's no school.

Also some people decide to do a longer commute because they do it less often. Move further away. Stay over near the office one night a week.

Obviously it's going to effect total hours a week or year.

dulpit

I bet all the companies who are forcing a return to office will be expecting staff to work from home tomorrow because of the red alert.

I'm going to give a sporting analogy, one from soccer.

About 25 years ago English soccer began to change a little with teams adopting zonal marking for corners/free kicks rather than man to man. Punditry for some time afterwards couldn't catch up. So every time a goal was scored from a set piece it was supposedly the system's fault, but if a team were playing man to man and a goal was scored that was an individual error. People were explaining away failures of what was tried and trusted, while wanting to bin the newer system entirely because it wasn't completely infallible.

To an extent the same thing is happening now with WFH. If people don't meet targets it will be blamed on WFH, it won't be because of individual failures, at least not in the minds of people who want to see it that way.

But it'd also be wrong to think that all employers want an end to remote working. Its introduction is saving many companies thousands of euros every week because they either downsized or closed offices.