Friendship Ending After a Decade; Would Like Feedback

friendship_issue · 19-11-2024 05:09PM #1

I used to use this site before, but registering now to raise an issue that came up between what seems to be a former friend and I.

Long-story short, he and I know each other 10 years. When we first knew each other, I loaned him €1,000 for him to take dental treatments in Poland. We were getting on great and even though we lived in different countries (he’s from Faroe Islands), I felt I could trust him to make the loan (we hadn’t met at that time, it was purely an online thing). Around 1.5 years later things were going a bit iffy for me and by then, I had already visited him and his country. So, I asked if it was possible for him to start paying me back, even if little by little. After 3-4 tries, he blocked me on Facebook and other social media. That was the end of that, I thought.

3 years later, I tried to get back in touch with him in the hope that we could mend things. We immediately did. He offered to pay back the loan but I said there was no rush and he could leave it till another time. We got on well for several years. He didn’t ask for any money or anything like that. He was busy with his fiancé and kid and home and work etc. My partner and I visited him twice more in the Faroes over the past 2-years. Both trips went great, and it was nice to meet his family. The last time we met in the Faroes was as recently as June.

Fast forward to 2-weeks ago and everything changes. He messages me from Denmark saying he and his fiancé have split up, and he’s lodging on his brother’s sofa in a college apartment. He was not sleeping well and so I offered to fly him to Dublin because I have a spare room here. I paid for his flights over (€420), allowed him to stay for 11-days, and paid for all his food, drinks in bars, tourist costs when visiting things etc. In total, when you include everything together, it’s probably around €1,300 I paid toward his trip here.

It's what happened during those 11-days that caused conflict. I felt I was making an enormous effort to help him. On top of the above, I even offered him 50% in a business idea I had started (to help him financially in the future) but wanted to work with him to make it grow (and could easily achieve over time).

However, when here, he immediately installed Tinder and started chatting up girls. That’s fine, I even recommended he meet girls here. The problem is that it was all one-way. He only wanted to talk to girls and it felt like we only talked in my apartment as a kind of boring other. When out in a pub, he’d want to go home after 1-2 hours and text girls. During time in the pub, he was just texting on Tinder most of the time. I started to feel alienated.

He arrived Thursday. All we did from Thursday to Wednesday was do a 2-hour walk around Dublin on the Thursday. Apart from that, all his time and arrangements were made either talking to, meeting, or sleeping over at other women’s places. I was frustrated that he didn’t seem to want to spend any time with me, supposed to be his friend.

On Tuesday I called it out, a bit aggressively. He was defensive and blamed me, saying that this was the plan all along – that he needed a “place to stay” and needed to be “around feminine energy”. Apparently he did want to do things with me in Dublin, but that wasn’t his priority. I always knew before him coming here that he wanted to meet girls, but I didn’t realise his intention was for it to be almost all the time.

As it turned out, we did see things on the Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. Then on Saturday he went to meet a girl in the evening and sleep over; said he’d be back on Sunday (as his flight back was on Monday morning). It turns out that he said he’ll be back at 5am on Monday morning as he wants to sleep with this woman more, and that we can have a coffee and say bye when he arrives (this woman living in Dundalk). I felt that to be incredibly rude. I would have thought that someone who spent over €1,000+ on his stay in total and who is his host (did all the cooking and cleaning and everything else for him), would have at least spent a few hours at the end of the trip to see things out.

We had an argument at that 5am meeting, as I was furious. I said things that were less than polite because I felt like I was exploited. As before, this was the 2nd time I had helped him out financially – and the 2nd time I felt burned.

I subsequently deleted him from Facebook and sent a polite email saying how disappointed I was that he decided to just leave at 5am in the way that he did. That the friendship is done and finished.

He sent an email today saying he has no intention of reading my email and that the stress I caused by trying to limit his time with women caused more psychological damage than any “voluntary” financial harm I may have suffered. Basically no gratitude for what I did, but apparently I’m responsible for everything breaking down. He bears no responsibility whatsoever.

Now here’s the thing. I don’t know if I was right to react in the way I have. Should I have just expected him to do whatever he wants as soon as I gave him a bed here? Was I wrong to be offended and lash out in the way that I did?

I honestly don’t know if I did the right thing or not. Right now I’m sad and disappointed because I valued his friendship a lot and I know for certain there’s no way back. Whether I was responsible for breaking it down, I don’t know.

Hence why I wanted to ask for feedback on here.

Apologies for the length but I thought having full context was important given the situation evolving up and down over a period of a decade.

Purple Mountain · 19-11-2024 05:15PM

If you were my friend, I'd tell you to cop yourself on. As this is PI and it's supposed to be more gentle, I'll tell you that he's done you a favour showing you his true colours.

He's a leech and a cheap skate, the worst kind of person.

Block him on every available means of contact and count your lucky stars he can't leech off you anymore.

Yvonne007 · 19-11-2024 05:20PM

I can't really sugar coat this. He is a parasite and you are too needy.

You have a completely different idealisation of what your friendship was. He took you for a fool and you allowed it.

Chalk it up to a lesson, albeit expensive lesson, learned.

I'm sorry you had this happen to you.

bucketybuck · 19-11-2024 05:24PM

You valued his friendship? What friendship? What did he ever actually give to you in return?

Your question shouldn't be if you handled this freeloader correctly, but why on earth you consider any of that to be a friendship at all?

HalloweenJack · 19-11-2024 05:25PM

Just let it be. You've been burned twice by this guy. Do yourself a favour and make sure he doesn't do it a third time.

You were right to react the way you did. His behaviour is very poor form. Don't lean too much into this 'he's going through a breakup' justification, either. He took you for a complete ride and doesn't even have the decency to consider your feelings (saying he wasn't going to read your email).

It might be that you're still very upset but you haven't given any examples of why he is such a good friend.

looksee · 19-11-2024 05:26PM

The one thing that stands out to me is 'he offered to pay back the loan but I said there was no rush and he could leave it till another time'. Why? If you had said 'no, I have forgiven the loan, lets forget about it' that would make sense, but its outstanding for a long time, he offers to pay it back and you say 'nah, leave it for now'.

The rest is pretty much irrelevant. Why did you value his friendship when you barely saw him and really got nothing out of the friendship? Though you have not said how much he put into your visits to the Faroe Islands. As said above, you need to cop on - either give everything without expecting any return, or give yourself a bit of respect and keep the relationship even. He's gone, forget about him.

JIdontknow · 19-11-2024 05:30PM

So after loaning him €1000 previously which wasn't paid back, you invite him on an "all expenses" trip to Ireland (Pay for flights and put him up), and also offer him 50% in your new business idea? Count your losses at this stage tbh and count yourself lucky, sounds like its all take and no give from him… Sounds a bit like you were trying too hard to force the friendship at times with him.

friendship_issue · 19-11-2024 05:38PM

Thanks for the responses so far.

To answer the question several times asked now, "what friendship / what did he ever do for me?"; I guess we just got on very well. We had very similar interests and sense of humour and got on really well. Always enjoyed each other's company and never felt bored around each other. I don't believe he was faking that. When I went to the Faroes each time, he spent as much time as he could with me (taking time off work etc.) given his situation. I got on with his then fiancé, too. So whilst he has never lavished me with cash (as he isn't well off; just getting by), he was I would like to think a good friend. We didn't speak every month, but when we did, it was normal.

I do agree with the idealisation of friendship point. I do have a tendency to want to help friends as much as possible, even if harmful to myself. It's not a good habit.

I agree with the loan point. I should have just accepted his timing and left it at that.

As I say, when we were doing things Wed, Thu, Fri - and conversations at home, it was all good. It was just his focus outside of that times where his conduct was alienating.

His argument on the Tuesday is that I was jealous of the attention he was giving girls. To some extent though, that's true - I did feel that more attention should have been given to the host given the sheer lengths I went to. Not total attention, but not nothing either. Would people here have reacted angrily at the 5am thing if this was a friend of yours? I did react very angrily - even resorting to shouting abusive comments to him. Ultimately, I found that 5am to be the ultimate insult to what I did for him. Whether I was right about the scale of my response at that time, I'm still not sure.

Dial Hard · 19-11-2024 06:12PM

Sorry to be harsh, OP, but you need to hear this, I think - you were never his friend, you were his sponsor. You've thrown enough good money after bad at this point - mourn the loss of the friendship you thought you had, and then maybe do a little work on yourself and examining your boundaries. Only you both seem to have had partners of your own throughout, this sounds like a classic romance scam to me, tbh.

Purple Mountain · 19-11-2024 06:39PM

OP, I think you should also work on your self esteem, boundaries etc.

What does your partner say about this?

friendship_issue · 19-11-2024 06:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122858445#Comment_122858445

When I started feeling something wasn't quite right, he agreed with me - saying that I was "bankrolling his sex life". The thing is that he only met my friend as recently as last year - and he liked him a lot, too. He didn't detect anything other than a normal friendship.

After my then friend and I spoke on Tuesday, the friend basically said that this is what he wanted to do because of the break-up and he needed to be with women to help him psychologically (he was off work for a month also because of clinical depression).

So I felt guilty on the one hand - trying to limit his time with girls and spend more time with me, but felt terrible at the same time that I felt financially exploited (not once did he even gesture to buy something / or treat my partner and I).

Part of me wonders whether he is a classic psychopath, and he knows how to manipulate / gaslight others. The weird thing is that part of me also regrets bringing up these issues on the Tuesday and the 5am thing because had I not, things would be normal today. Though at the same time, I realise that if something is wrong, I should just call it out. It's an awful conflicting mindset.

HazeDoll · 19-11-2024 07:06PM

It is traditional in this forum for posters to jump in to point out all the ways you are to blame for your misfortune. It will be up to you to sift through the replies and extract the good sense from the bad.

With that in mind…

You gave somebody you had never met a thousand Euros to go to the dentist. You meant well but that was your first mistake.

When it was time to pay you back he cut you off. That's how much you and your friendship meant to him. At this point, he had actually done you a favour but you couldn't just learn the lesson and get on with things, you simply had to resurrect the 'friendship.' The minute he realised that you were not going to ask for your money back he thought "Ka-ching!" and began treating you like a B&B with a convenient ATM, and for some reason you let him.

He's not a good guy and he was never your friend. Mourne the loss of your money, by all means, but do not convince yourself you have lost a meaningful friendship.

Have a proper think why you were willing to go so far out on a limb for him. What need in yourself were you trying to meet? You can't change his nature but you can look at your own to try to make sure this doesn't happen again.

friendship_issue · 19-11-2024 07:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122858570#Comment_122858570

Have a proper think why you were willing to go so far out on a limb for him. What need in yourself were you trying to meet?

Unfortunately there is a kind of history with this.

I had another friend who similarly, over a period of a decade, either took advantage of me, lied to me (hundreds of times), exploited me etc. - but who I let because I felt the 'friendship' was valuable to me in some way. I had never had many friends growing up, I was always kinda awkward actually.

So I think with adults I'm over-compensating under the illusion that adults wouldn't behave the way things were when I was a teenager; that if I go to extra lengths, I can assure the friendship if not even fix the bad parts that exist within it.

I do realise this is a problem and something I need to work on. But it's almost reflexive - and as bizarre as this sounds, you sometimes feel that you would rather be in that kind of friendship that always exists than to have none at all. In other words, occasional rounds of bad things happening is acceptable if there's a lot of good conversation / feeling to the relationship between me and those people. For instance; I was certain after the argument on Sunday morning I was done with him, then today I'm feeling as if I'd want him back as a friend. Utterly bizarre to hear, I know, but it's something I have had years of experience with - and it doesn't go away easily.

JupiterKid · 19-11-2024 07:24PM

HI there OP, I would agree with what the others here opined - this guy was never a real friend, nor was he even a good acquaintance. He is a deeply selfish person, a complete leech, a freeloader and you were his ATM.

Sorry to be so blunt but you do need to work on your boundaries and be very wary in future of people who abuse your kind and good nature. I know this as I've been there myself in the past.

friendship_issue · 19-11-2024 07:29PM

For what it's worth, this is the parting email he sent me earlier today, entitled, "Cardinal Sin - Closing Communication".

"Dear,

I see that you have sent me an email. I have no intention to read it.

Therefore I am writing to formally inform you that I will no longer be engaging in any form of communication with you, including emails, calls, or other correspondence. This decision is final and non-negotiable.

I am deeply disappointed by the way events have unfolded. To begin, dismissing the validity of my mental health condition—diagnosed and corroborated by long-term counseling, assessments from psychiatrists, and psychologists—was profoundly hurtful. Your subsequent behavior, where you used my symptoms against me, was equally unacceptable.

The accusations you have made, including claims that I have fabricated my condition, live my life as a psychopathic abuser, or have malevolent intentions, are baseless and intolerable. Such remarks are beneath any respectful discourse and are not something I will entertain.

To clarify some points of contention:

1. Terms in Copenhagen

The offer extended to me prior to my arrival was not honored as agreed.

2. Behavior During My Stay

Despite following through with the plans we had discussed and mutually agreed upon, I endured four significant outbursts from you within a little over a week.

3. Financial Impact

The trip caused you minimal financial strain. However, the psychological toll on me, especially during a period of sick leave while dealing with personal upheaval, was profound. The damage caused far outweighs any financial contribution you voluntarily made.

I have always approached matters with honesty and transparency, using my real name and making my professional contact details openly available. Unfortunately, your approach lacked the same candor. Had you been forthright about your intentions from the outset, I would have declined the offer as the timing was not right for me. Instead, your actions created a situation of unnecessary manipulation and stress.

This email marks the conclusion of any interaction between us. I will not read, acknowledge, or respond to any future correspondence from you.

I sincerely wish you a successful and fulfilling life ahead.

Best regards,"

Regarding the dismissing his mental health claims, on the Tuesday when I realized things were going south, I doubted his claims because when in Copenhagen, he was sending me messages of sympathy and depression, but here he was full of smiles. So when I got angry, I challenged him by saying, "Depression, I don't think so…".

friendship_issue · 19-11-2024 11:11PM

Can I ask how people here would have responded if they hosted a friend from a foreign country for 11-days and they, at the end, decided to stay with a Tinder date and arrive at 5am to collect their things to finally go to the airport?

(Against the backdrop of they splitting up with their fiance, wanting to find "feminine energy" etc.).

That's what caused the fatal rupture in the friendship, for me at least. Would people here have responded in the same way I did?

Jim_Hodge · 19-11-2024 11:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122859531#Comment_122859531

Look, let go. Delete that email, delete his phone number, email address etc from anywhere you may have it. Try to put it behind you and learn from this experience with a person none of us would want to count among our friends. He's gone and make sure he's gone for good. You deserve better.

Purple Mountain · 20-11-2024 12:25AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122859531#Comment_122859531

I can't answer that because after not repaying me for his dental work, he would not have been invited for a free holiday to my home.

SineadSpears · 20-11-2024 01:05AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122859779#Comment_122859779

This ^ 100% .

& then also offer to go into business with someone that can't/won't pay back €1,000 - to a friend.

JoChervil · 20-11-2024 01:18AM

OP, you are buying people and then want a real deal. But you only can buy rubbish ones, leeches. Any respecting themselves person wouldn't allow you to do it.

You need a solid therapy to regain your self esteem because even if you started a real friendship, you would feel uncomfortable in an equal relation. And an unequal one is not worth conducting as you just have experienced.

Do yourself a favour and block him everywhere. And stop ruminating on him and his useless letter. Be happy that you have him out of your life hopefully for good. It really doesn't matter, how strong you reacted. It was only a matter of time, how long you would stand his unacceptable behaviour.

He not only robbed you of few quids, but also put blame on you for the whole situation and guilt is a very damaging emotion. Don't let him do it to you. He was fully aware what kind of person you are and he took it all from you with no qualms.

OP, really, forget about him and focus on yourself and your mental health.

bilbot79 · 20-11-2024 01:28AM

I think you have some sort of friendship 'deficit' in your life and it's caused you to basically pay this guy to fill it in for a while. He is such a parasite that only when confronted could he manage to squeeze out a bit of time for you.

I had such a deficit in my younger years for a while and a parasitic friend that always finds ways to reel you in to be used again.

You need to take a step back and start looking at yourself with a whole new level of self awareness. Become a person who makes strong decisions, a stoic. Cut this guy and anyone like him completely out, like completely ghosted forever.

cj maxx · 20-11-2024 04:57AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122859531#Comment_122859531

SSorry OP but it never was a friendship. Get that into your head . He's a user and you a willing victim for whatever reason.

Purple Mountain · 20-11-2024 10:11AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122859531#Comment_122859531

That's irrelevant, OP.

The jig was up (or should have been up) for him when he ghosted you after you rightfully looked for your money back.

Ask yourself: what self respecting man would accept money from a woman online, who he had never met before for dental treatment!

What self respecting man would disappear off the radar when that woman looked for her money back?

What self respecting man then comes jumping at the opportunity of a free holiday, at the expense of that lady, after his past deplorable behaviour?!

Raise a glass to good riddance to the back to a manipulative leech 🥂

Yvonne007 · 20-11-2024 10:21AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122858666#Comment_122858666

That is not an email that someone who was ever a friend would send.

What were the "Terms in Copenhagen"?

bucketybuck · 20-11-2024 11:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122858666#Comment_122858666

What on earth did I just read? Who actually talks or writes like that to a friend?

You are asking all the wrong questions OP, you are trying to analyse specific points of the transaction while ignoring the elephant in the room, the fact that this wasn't a friendship at all.

Its not really about him so block the idiot and never contact him ever again, and then seriously sit down and take a look at why you allowed this to happen in the first place.

JIdontknow · 20-11-2024 12:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122859531#Comment_122859531

The fatal rupture was long before that point to be honest, it was accumulating. You don't need to justify yourself, he is not a friend, you responded accordingly, and it almost comes across that his email has made you feel guilty for your initial reaction, and you need justification or for others to say you did the right thing as you are dwelling on it. Everyone reacts differently. Some would have said fair play to him his last night here hope you enjoyed it, others would have reacted like you did and been annoyed, everyone is different.. Count your losses and move on, you can't force friendship.

miamee · 20-11-2024 12:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122859531#Comment_122859531

Staying with a randomer he met on Tinder and collecting his things at 5am to leave was just a culmination of a week that had gone the same way. He wasn't here to spend quality time with you, he was here to meet women. I feel from reading your posts that maybe you felt by inviting him to your home and paying for everything that you were buying his time and he was obliged to spend time with you. Don't get me wrong, he was very rude and ungrateful by the sounds of things but I'm more worried that you are trying to buy friends instead of developing friendships.

I have a number of friends that I have known a long time. First of all, they would have to be in very desperate circumstances to ask for or accept a loan of €1000. And if they did, they would bend over backwards to get it back to me as soon as they possibly could. Someone who so readily accepts you putting yourself out for them financially or otherwise is not your friend.

Let this one go, he is of no use to you as a friend. He lives so far away that most of your friendship must be virtual, try making some friends closer to home.

friendship_issue · 20-11-2024 01:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122860310#Comment_122860310

Thanks again for all the posts, it has helped clarify quite a few things for me whereas beforehand, I was in two minds whether I had acted properly or not (as another poster said above, inducing guilt in another person can have quite the effect).

On the "Terms in Copenhagen", he is referring to our discussion of him arriving here. It wasn't some formal arrangement at all, as he expresses it in the email. It was a very casual discussion where he said things along the lines of "you can be my tour guide" and show him around Dublin, and that he needs a place to stay and would like to meet women. He is framing it as somehow almost contractual, that it was always about meeting women. From my angle, that wasn't the case at all - it was going to be a balanced trip where we would do things together and he would go do things with Tinder dates (originally I suggested going to Denmark for a few days to spend time with him, but he insisted that he would like to come to Dublin instead).

However, it turned out to be entirely one way.

I would never have agreed to pay someone to come to the country for them to spend all their time on Tinder dates. No reasonable person would accept that, let alone from a so-called friend. As I said before, he is framing it that this is necessary for his mental wellbeing given his break-up circumstances.

Furthermore, he was upset when he came here because my partner told me that he couldn't have girls stay over. Originally I had no problem with it, but I had to respect my partner's opinion and so I informed him that he would have to meet girls elsewhere. As it turned out, the girl he stayed over at was in Dundalk anyway - so he could never have brought her here anyway. He felt that this was "dishonoring" the so-called "agreement" we made (again, this formal language was not used at any point during our casual chats).

As I say, it's manipulative lying and nothing more - trying to blame me for his behaviour.

notAMember · 20-11-2024 01:58PM

OP, your former pal is no doubt a very charming person, entertaining and pleasant to be around, probably flatters you by paying close attention, looks directly in your eyes etc. This is why you like him, it's a skill people are often born with or develop. Plenty of people have high charisma like this and are great to be around, good conversation, plenty of laughs.

He sounds like he has coasted along through life on this skill, faroe islands, poland, denmark, dublin… finding well-meaning softies like yourself and his ex-fiance to bankroll him. For people where this is their whole personality and skillset, the charm eventually wears thin, and people can see there's nothing beneath it (I assume his fiance dumped his butt).

He see no similar value in you. Your only value to him was probably the money. You are not as charming, and you are not the sex he finds attractive, so he finds time with you very boring and instead wants "feminine energy" , his word for a basic shag.

I wouldn't over-analyze it. Your feelings are hurt by the rejection, mine would be too, but he isn't worth your time or thoughts.

Move on.

friendship_issue · 20-11-2024 02:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122861234#Comment_122861234

He's definitely very charming and engaging, as you say. Very intelligent and persuasive. I do find it appealing, to be honest. It probably didn't help that I find him physically attractive too, and would regularly compliment him (and he was very comfortable with that).

As for his fiancé - yes, she decided to leave him. I was messaging her last night about the matter. She collected him at the airport and asked how the visit to Dublin went, he said "it was good", and moved on. Nothing about me whatsoever. I told her what happened and she was surprised. Apparently she too had expressed concerns that he was hijacking mental health claims to behave in otherwise wrong ways. She also felt that she was being gaslit and made to feel guilty about things she knew she was right about.

I know what that's like, because he successfully convinced me I was wrong after I called out his behaviour on the Tuesday.

Ultimately she was surprised but not shocked; the behaviour was consistent with what she eventually became unattracted to. The relationship just drifted along year after year, until their came a point when she just decided to call time on it.

I think it says a lot that in the space of a few weeks, he loses both his fiancé and then me - when he very easily could have kept both. But that is his selfish ways, it seems - probably irredeemably selfish, too.

mrsdewinter · 20-11-2024 02:24PM

Hi OP, I can see why the urge to contact the ex-fiancee must have been very strong - the information certainly sheds more light on his recent history and his ability to rebrand quickly a recent unpleasant experience - but please focus on yourself now and wind down your contact with this woman. Start looking to the future now and think about what this whole ordeal has taught you about yourself. (There's been loads of interesting and thought-provoking comments above.)

Friendship Ending After a Decade; Would Like Feedback

Comments