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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 252 ✭✭thehairygrape


    I think it would have been a mistake to start Sam Prendergast against NZ, or even to have him on the bench. Crowley has credit in the bank, was the man in possession, and was ok against the ABs. Kicked his kicks and restated well, brave as usual in defence behind a pack that struggled and a back line that kept dropping the ball (as did Crowley on one occasion). He didn’t manage the game well but he’s not that experienced yet and he’s the best we’ve got atm. Frawley also had credit but unfortunately had a bit of a nightmare for the 20 minutes he was on. Both calls correct imo. I’d have them both in the same positions next time out.

    Prendergast has potential but he’s only played 20 odd times for Leinster and rarely started. He also seems to have not fully grown in to his body as yet. Stellar U20 career but that’s a different level to senior international. He needs time in the senior environment first. The problems yesterday were elsewhere. Indiscipline, dropped balls, very uncharacteristic. The line out is a mess though. Also, I thought the ref was woeful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 106 ✭✭lonester99


    Id take Gus mccarthys minutes this year over the **** all gametime Herrings had and herrings shocking performance completley justifies that opinion



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    Leinster were 9th in the URC last season for lineout success and 10th the season before. That suggests to me that it is not just a coaching issue but a personnel issue as well. And that's coming from someone who doesn't think O'Connell has done a good job.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,888 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I mean, good for you but I can't imagine any coach would agree. A 21 year old hooker who has started four professional games ever is not getting into the 23 for NZ. It would be a different discussion in a different position.

    I don't think Herring was particularly poor in relation to the rest of the team anyway.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,888 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I absolutely would not have had him in the squad yesterday but I think he's a lot closer than you are making out. He'll get 1 or 2 caps this autumn. After that it's more in Leinster's hands as to how much European gametime he gets.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 252 ✭✭thehairygrape


    I’m no expert by any means, but I hope he’s handled very carefully. You may well be right, but I’d give him a bit more time in the wider squad. I’d love to see Crowley and Prendergast both vying for the OH position come the next World Cup. Obviously people who know the game better than me see something in him now, but still. Let’s not rush the lad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    Aussies MOTM today in his first ever pro game apparently.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,888 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    First ever pro Union game. He has played League (though he's still v young at 21)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,007 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Australia are ranked 9th in the world behind Italy. They have way more need to experiment and take risks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 252 ✭✭thehairygrape




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭niallm77


    I understand why you say that but we always take the too cautious approach. We need to be a little bit more adventurous with our approach.

    If POM, Healy, Murray and Henderson never got picked again I think that's fine. It needs to happen



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭Shehal


    I wouldn't pick Gus but surely Heffernan who's played consistently this season played quite well was a better pick.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,656 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    If he stays healthy, I'd be shocked if he's not the Leinster starter by season's end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭Shehal


    I could see him being the number 1 by the 6N if he gets a decent crack, but yes by the end of the season I'm confident he will be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,007 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Which I wouldn’t entirely disagree with and can see where that’s coming from.

    But I’d absolutely disagree with the suggestion that Prendergast should be fast tracked in ahead of Crowley and Frawley.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,656 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Why? He's already shown a better ability at 10 than Frawley, and if nothing else ought to be in camp to compete with Crowley. Saying we need to wait for some indeterminate time to bring in a clearly massively talented player has no logic to it. If they're good enough, they're good enough. We've done it before, so why not now? Fitzgerald was a starting Lions winger at 22, with less of a record at underage than Prendergast has now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,007 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Saying we need to wait for some indeterminate time to bring in a clearly massively talented player has no logic to it. 

    That’s not what I’ve argued. I just don’t think he’s done enough, and Crowley done so little, that Prendergast being parachuted in is warranted. (Tho it’s closer with Frawley, imo).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 603 ✭✭✭thamus doku


    we are sleep walking ourselves into another World Cup quarter final loss

    we are obsessed with selecting the same players again and again.

    The biggest issue is not age profile its the number of players who get serious game time, we do not try and build a deep experienced squad. I assume the IRFU are the reason for this - reason being they can't afford the loss in revenue for the time it takes to build a big experienced squad but then could not afford to pay the wages of such a squad were it developed.

    I honestly believe Irish rugby is at a crossroads and believe the ban on foreign based players playing for Ireland should be scrapped. We need to move with the times - we need to let the senior players with say minimum 20 caps go abroad if they want while not penalising them. The reality is the senior players are actually acting as a bottleneck in the player production line, if we could move these abroad while allowing them to be selected for Ireland we would improve the number of experienced players available to Ireland. needless to say we need to also stop importing foreign players - does not help Irish rugby.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Prendergast has done nothing at club level to indicate to me that he would be a game changer at this level yet. I thought Crowley was like a 6/10 and Frawley had one of those games that showed why Cullen was reluctant to play him at 10.

    Our pack was less physical, gave away too many penalties and that's that basically.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 114 ✭✭honestbroker




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  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No, Irish mum i'm pretty sure. Bealham as well is IQ i think.

    I think the project player thing will be a problem for the provinces and maybe for ireland, but yea those two aren't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 252 ✭✭thehairygrape


    “ I assume the IRFU are the reason for this - reason being they can't afford the loss in revenue for the time it takes to build a big experienced squad but then could not afford to pay the wages of such a squad were it developed.”


    I’d agree with this. I presume Andy Farrell’s remit is to keep winning and keep the ranking up to fill the Aviva with people who will only support a winning team. As mentioned previously, attending a match is a very frustrating experience if you’re looking to follow the game. Seems to be a largely social event, with lots of drinking etc. Fair enough. Croke Park can be like that as well, especially at big matches. But, if you’re interested in putting a squad together for the next WC, you need to build that squad and accept a few losses, and the possible loss in revenue. Probably not going to happen.

    Still think it’s too early for SP though!



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't really agree with the underlying premise here but even if i did the solution seems weird.

    Wouldn't it be better to push irish veterans abroad who aren't in the ireland picture? Keep the ireland players, lose the guys in their late twenties who won't make it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Do you think any coach or the IRFU want to have a team which is losing but its a tick in the box for fans because we fill the team full of young players while we are losing?

    We have built the squad, we have built the team.

    One loss doesn't really change that

    It was a bad performance, I expect angry Andy will be out after it because 1-23 didn't have a good game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 603 ✭✭✭thamus doku


    but foreign clubs will not want those players, they will want players like furlong Doris porter van der flier ringrose etc etc.
    It’s either that or introduce a salary cap at Leinster to force the younger talented players to move within Ireland.

    either way something must happen to ensure the cream of the young players coming through at Leinster do not stop progressing because they are allowed to sit never ending waiting in the wings in Dublin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    With JIFF regulations the French clubs will only want the stars

    The English league is a basket case

    So who are you sending the players to?

    Which players are you pushing abroad?



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'd disagree on that honestly. Guys like the Rea Brothers, Jack O Donohoue, Dooley, Deegan etc could pretty easily find places to play imo. Ross Moloney was in demand. Jack O Sullivan is playing in Japan. Exeter seem to sign a couple of irish guys per year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Um no they dont…they Montpellier literally want Ross Byrne!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 134 ✭✭jim Dempsey


    Sexton didnt help the team. A bit like Joe marler gave the kiwis ammo

    Going by how the team didn't show up id guess they don't like sexton too much. It may be a bad idea to drag him back into camp after all this drama he has caused.



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  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ross Maloney went to Bath. Dunne, O Loughlin to Exeter. John Ryan was in England. Byrne in Wales. Pro D2 has a lot of Irish. There are two in Japan. Ulster lost a few players for disciplinary reasons and they all got spots including non internationals.

    If you think about this logically. We have provincial teams that are competitive with english and welsh teams. So surely, our top tier non international could play on those teams.



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