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Harris Vs Trump 2024 US Presidential election - read the warning in the OP posted 18/09/24

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,028 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Any comment on Donny deep throating a microphone?

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Because they believe it. All of it. People in isolation are, or overwhelmingly tend to be sound enough with the individual weirdnesses we all have, people in groups on the other hand… Those weird bits get amplified for a start. And they're very easy to manipulate by those who seek to. It's how tribes form. Add in mass media firehosing simplistic responses to complex things into their phones and all bets are off.

    Look at Halloween night in Dublin. A shedload of people turned up for a parade that wasn't, never was before and made no actual sense, all because of a rumour spread on social media. Now there's even talk of having a real parade next Halloween. And that was harmless, that was simple. People believing stuff like "they're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats, they're eating the[beat as he struggles to think of another animal] pets!" is an extension of that kinda thing.

    People™ tend to be tribal, fearful, simplistic in thinking, very "local" and full sure of their Truth© and their leaders who reinforce it. It's how most of human history has played out and often badly. The problem these days is we have manmade suns we can throw at each other.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,635 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    It isn't Ireland, the Feds don't fund every aspect of public life unlike here.

    Local school boards control spending, as does the state. Federal dollars (something the current manifestation of the GOP want to severely curtail, cf. Project 2025) are about 8% if you believe the GooG. Local Property taxes pay for schools in the US, yet another thing Project 2025 wants to mess with - no more DoE money, and no tax deductions (per P2025) for LPT, so states and local school boards will need even more money* that won't be forthcoming - so schools will close and standards drop even further.

    Also, @Oscar_Madison , I don't think the OP was thinking about university students when they posted about a school teacher providing their own materials. The Biden admin has authorized a lot of spending, like on School infrastructure, funding for at-need students, etc. It's the debt relief that gets all the press, but I think you've missed the details.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,274 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    whether they work or not will be seen at the election outcome - I imagine Hogan is simply entertainment value at rallies



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They are all millionaires.

    Who respectively: Had their career ended by being a giant racist. Had their career ended by being a dangerous fraud. And had their career ended by being terrible.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭DangerMouse27


    My original foray into this thread was that he is not only holding his own against Kamala, despite the gaffes, allegations and proven facts, he's winning.

    If you can't beat.. that guy!!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But seems like more double standards being applied though.

    Celebrity endorsements are only an issue for the dems. When it comes to Trump getting endorsed by different millionaires, it's not an issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    And who has had control of the senate and house where these things actually get worked on?

    The presidents office can only do so much, unless you're looking for a dictatorship, maybe even from day one?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Well it's irrelevant considering that's not what the furore is about.

    Also he's not been part of a political dynasty which has been largely responsible for a lot of the wars america has got involved in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,274 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    All true I grant you - and yes their education policy is scary -but where has been the empathy and action at presidential level or even vice presidential level ?

    Where is the willingness and commitment and visibility to try and sort this mess? You don’t have a country if you don’t have well educated people - instead industry goes abroad to chase the brain talent - the gap between rich and poor widens due to poor education and hence job prospects.

    This isn’t a problem that started over night like a surge at a border - it’s years in the making - hence no one including and maybe especially the Democrats have sorted it -so yes they must take some of the blame here



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭DangerMouse27


    Your original comment was classist. This comment clarifies. That wasn't so hard, was it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,950 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    Would you look at that! Biden's press team getting the Whitehouse Stenographers to change the official transcript of Biden's calling Trump supporters garbage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,635 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Agreed - and at least this administration did what Administrations do: spent money on programs designed to improve things. The previous one (afair) actively worked against positive educational outcomes, one obvious way was the appointment of a 'charter school' activist Betsy DeVos as secretary.

    So, this administration spent money, put people in place that wanted to improve things and took the daring step to try and do something about student debt, which wasn't about improving educational outcomes for those that had the debt, just getting the debt off their backs.

    There are plenty of announcements on WH.gov about education and funding and programs from this admin (not so its predecessor). Sure they could do more - give them 4 more years and you're likely to see some of it.

    A big scary problem is the influence of Teacher's unions, especially at the state level. They're greedy, corrupt and work actively to lower standards. Personally I don't believe they should unionize any white collar workers, starting with teachers. You won't get worse people teaching as a result, they're largely getting dregs now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,472 ✭✭✭Lewis_Benson


    Hes right though.

    Having hulk hogan endorse you is hardly a positive, the man is known to lie all the time. Maybe thats it, trump is not known for telling the truth either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,274 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Trump has very few endorsements in comparison and those who are such as Hulk Hogan, well let’s face it, would you spend the time of day criticising that cartoon character?

    I wasn’t criticising any one “celebrity”- I was making the point that if you think in 2024, that rolling out the best that American dentistry has to offer will influence an audience that’s disillusioned with life in America and are completely alienated by a party they once loved, then sorry you’re using a playbook that’s a good 20 years out of date- those old tricks have long outlived their usefulness, especially in this particular election.

    You can go on about your “double standards” all you wish - it doesn’t bother me in the slightest as it’s a broken record at this stage to me - I criticise both sides when I feel I wish too - I have absolutely no interest in listening to or being lectured about “double standards”- especially every second post



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭accensi0n




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭DangerMouse27


    That Liz Cheney thing is so layered.

    Wonder what kind of Hawkish actions he's referring to. She's likely one of them that's pushing for war with Iran. Or was the nine guns referring to something specific. Her father did pepper a man's face with birdshot.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If you don't like people pointing out double standards, stop using them.

    Trump has also tried to leverage celebrity endorsements, though largely of much less appeal given how the best he can must are folks like Hogan.

    Your argument should also apply to these endorsements. Trump trotting out millionaires should also have the same effect.

    Even more so when he trots out the worlds richest man.

    But as usual you only seem to think this is an issue for the Harris campaign.

    I think that Trump's pet celebrities come with other issues that far outweigh the small number who might be put off just by their wealth.

    For example, it's a bit contradictory to argue that the campaign doesn't have a racism problem when the biggest star you get is infamous for going on racist rants.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,409 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    The comedian as garbage.

    Unless You think a stenographer can hear an apostrophe?

    Do you?

    And welcome back to discussing republicans thinking Puerto Rico is garbage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,970 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    These types of highly suggestible, gullible people represent a large lucrative market that snakeoil salesmen like Carlson try to reach. Whether it's Pizzagate, weather control, microchips in vaccines, Putin apologism - Trump has many of these hucksters who peddle that stuff in his orbit. As a candidate who has no principles and lies as effortlessly as we breathe - he'll endorse or validate any nonsense as long as it gets him that supporter.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭DangerMouse27


    Hulk, Kid Rock. They appeal to young, patriotic, military friendly men. They've both done extensive tours overseas at US bases.

    Whereas JLo is tainted with Diddy at the moment. Another mis-step by the Harris team. I get the Puerto Rican angle but her appearance, and Ushers involvement will only enrage the Epstein island clan who think that the Dems have sat on their hands and not revealed more.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And known for throwing around slurs.

    And union busting.

    Still a bit confused how pointing out millionaires are millionaires is classist though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,274 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Your “projection” on to me as to what I “should” and “shouldn’t” do as a poster on a discussion forum is quite frankly scary 😳

    I’ve made it clear that I post what I feel at the time - I don’t overthink it- I certainly don’t have an “agenda” - I’m leaving it there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,807 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    I get it. They aspire to be ostentatious billionaires like Donald Trump, it's a sign of what anyone can achieve.
    But mere multi-millionaires are a turn-off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,274 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    “The presidents office can only do so much”


    Try that line with the undecided voters right now who don’t have a job -Trump is saying he can “do it all”- many believe him - had education been prioritised many years ago by Democrats as the factories and manufacturing industries closed maybe they wouldn’t be where they are now. MAGA didn’t happen in isolation of the Democrats - somewhere along the line they lost a significant portion of their blue collar support - they have to reflect on why at some point

    “unless you're looking for a dictatorship, maybe even from day one?”


    I’m not “looking” for anything - I don't have a vote.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭DangerMouse27


    I'm trying hard to find your objective point, apart from Trump bad.

    Harris: Gates.

    Trump: Musk.

    Its pathetic enough from both sides.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ok. If you say so.

    But if you keep applying double standards to Harris people are going to keep pointing out that's what you're doing.

    That's what happen again in this case.

    Trump also has a ton of millionaire and billionaire celebrities trotting out at his rallies. if you think that doing this puts people off, then it also puts people off Trump.

    I content that it's more of a issue for Trump as the amount of people who'd change their vote because of this is miniscule, where more would be put off by the celebrities highlighting certain uncomfortable aspects of the campaign.

    Like Hogan highlighting the racism and wrestling fakeness.

    Or Musk highlighting all of the hypocrisy and weird Russian dealings. And also the racism…



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just pure double standards.

    It's fine if Trump does it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,807 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Even if we accept the most charitable interpretation, I still don't get his overall point here though?

    Is it that only ex-serving or currently serving military personnel have the moral right to decide to get the country involved in a conflict? By definition that means those personnel are the government. That's a form of government which has been tried (Latin America, Iberia, West Africa) and has generally gone out of fashion.

    Or if we accept that civilians who were never in the military can be in charge of a democracy, but don't have the right to send the troops to war because they themselves never faced a bullet, then we must be talking about some sort of non-militarised country.

    So is it a military junta, or hippy pacifism he wants?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 699 ✭✭✭DangerMouse27


    Because he is unchanged. Unapologetically unchanged.

    She, not only should be better. The person on the ballot should be damn near impeccable. Close to it. They should earn that nom. She didn't. She was appointed. And a sitting VP appointed, which is worse.

    This is the race for the President of The United States. There is a bar. And maybe she meets it, but the team around her are crashing her out.

    I genuinely believe that Biden would have won but whatever happened to allow this, whoever allowed no debate, no election, no nominees. They killed the party and allowed Trump back in.



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