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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Nobody here is defending GB, although you seem strangely unaware of Sunningdale.

    In fact that you mention GB is part of the hilarity of all this. On the one hand the Provisional IRA claim their 30 year campaign was due to the NI State and Britain, but on the other the Irish government were supposed to move these two obstacles.

    It is all the more funny when you look at 26 years of SF and the SFA they have done to advance the cause without even the basis of a “plan”. All they seem to be good at is “fundraising” and divisive politics North and South.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭spillit67


    ”I know you are but what am I”

    As I said earlier this week, the ickle child still annoyed about student fees can’t talk about SF without FG.

    Kate O’Connell ffs….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭spillit67


    I love when Francis’s coded talking slips out a few times a week. They do a reasonable enough job of hiding it generally.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,523 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Nobody here is defending GB, although you seem strangely unaware of Sunningdale.

    The Sunningdale their army helped undermine and destroy? Do you know what you are talking about - the actual history?

    SF as a single political party won't be coming up with a 'plan' that isn't the taunt you think it is.

    P.S. Politics in NI were designed to be 'divisive' by an idiotic partition which was only meant to be temporary but was openly consolidated and usurped by Unionism while FG and FF looked on - doing sweet fanny all about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    The ickle child getting upset when facts are used. 😂



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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,594 Mod ✭✭✭✭squonk


    No more election moratorium now. It’s been scrapped. Probably won’t matter to the SF online folks who were online anyway



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,523 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,784 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Are you for real? What do you think would have happened during the troubles if there was a move towards a United Ireland in the 50's, 60's or 70's?

    Anybody with a tiny bit of intelligence knows it would have led to lots of bloodshed on the streets of the Republic of Ireland. Any politician pushing that back then would have been shot, literally and physically. The former by subversives, the latter by the electorate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,523 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Over 3000 people died.
    Largely because both governments stood by and watched Unionism change the voting system and run a bigoted sectarian statelet for 60 years.
    Then acted shocked when it went up in flames as it always was going to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The alleged offender was working in the Seanad in the Republic. Unless Sinn Fein had a tracker on his phone (which I admit is possible) the assumption must be that the offence took place here.

    Last I checked, the Irish government had zero role in calling a referendum on UI. Maybe the GFA has been updated or maybe SF have plans to go into government in Westminister.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The bizarre doublethink of republicans is once again on bare display here.

    The basic tenet of the GFA recognises that a majority of the people of Northern Ireland want to remain part of the UK - something which is true today, 25 years later.

    Francie is now claiming the British government did not respect this in the 50s, 60s and 70s, which they clearly did, as NI remained a part of the UK, but bizarrely criticises the Irish government of that time and since for not breaching those tenets of the GFA. One of the reasons an Irish government cannot start preparation for a united Ireland because they are bound by an international agreement to respect the wishes of the people of Northern Ireland. As such, they can talk about a shared island, but they cannot institute a process for a united Ireland. When we repealed Articles 2 and 3, we gave up that right.

    That doesn't prevent an individual political party (if they are brave enough) to publish their plan for a united Ireland, but the government cannot be seen to be moving ahead of the people of Northern Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,523 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The bizarre refusal to face the fact that the GFA is about much more than an acceptance of that.

    And what an utter stretch now to say we cannot begin a plan. Maybe have a word with your erstwhile hero Leo Varadkar?

    Good lord, the shark has truly been jumped in that post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    So no they weren't living in the Republic. Thanks for clearing that up. We still haven't cleared up why the PSNI have covered it up though. A mystery that one.

    Last I checked the Irish government have complete say in the holding of a UI referendun in the Republic, which needs to happen to achieve a UI. Maybe that's changed and now Irish Government's are not allowed hold referendums anymore.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,784 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    How many would have died in the Republic of people if they started talking about a UI. It was common sense to leave it alone back then for the sake of those living in the Republic of Ireland. That's the country these politicians, who you are criticising, represented.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,523 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No it wasn't 'common sense'.

    Over 3000 Irish people died because they allowed what was supposed to be temporary, not only to consolidate, but to be usurped and abused by an artificially created Unionist majority.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,580 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    There is no point in holding a referendum in the Republic on unity until a border poll has happened in the north. And a border poll is something that only the Secretary of State can call. 1 will follow the other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    @Augme seems to think we can have a referendum down here just for the hell of it.

    And that a SF government would hold one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    No the people died because people shot and bombed them. Others were crippled because people kneecapped them.

    The Brits made me do it is the feeblest excuse ever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,523 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    No the people died because people shot and bombed them. Others were crippled because people kneecapped them.

    Which is what has happened in every conflict/war since time began.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    The point is a UI referendum has to happen in the Republic for a UI to happen. An Irish Government need to be the ones to hold a referendum. The notion that an Irish government have no say in a UI is crazy.

    FG will never hold a UI referendum in the South, no matter what happens up North.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 681 ✭✭✭Madeoface


    A UI is not an election issue in the Republic for the vast majority of voters.

    I would theoretically be in favour of a united Ireland but wouldn't be willing to shell out in extra tax for it. For most people who have to work and get on with normal life I doubt it's ever a thought.

    In the full time business of being SF it's a driver of activity but it's not something that drives votes here.

    MLMcD missed harnessing the protest vote it got last election. Wishy washy housing proposals, having permanently angry Pearce on TV and infighting isn't a good look. Nor do the photos of a pensive MLMcD beside graves of bygone republicans do anything for voters in the Republic.

    'Its the economy stupid'... and that is just fine at present.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,961 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,961 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    After this weeks revelations re Sammy Wilson, its clear the only political 'power swap' or carve-up happening in Ireland has been the one between SF and the DUP. St Andrews was the start of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    Assuming SF defy the polls again, and the Soc Dems push on, and the Independents and Labour step up, how will the Jan 2025 cabinet look? We either believe its on or it isn't.

    Taoiseach MLMD

    Tainaste and rural dev Holly Cairns

    Finance Pearse Doherty

    Public Expenditure Matt Carthy

    Education Gary Gannon

    Enterprise Jed Nash

    Justice Pa Daly

    Health David Cullinane

    Unification Padraig McLochlann

    Equality & children Ivana Bacik

    Agriculture Michael Fitzmaurice

    Housing Eoin OBroin

    Transport Verona Murphy

    Environment Jenny Whitmore

    Social Protection Alan Kelly

    Et Al.

    Quite the troupe



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,494 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    If SF hold or gain from their current position, the Soc Dems would lose seats. Two at least are borrowed from SF not running enough candidates.

    The government coming out of such a potential election would be SF-FF



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,580 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Your last line is absolute rubbish. In the unlikely scenario that a border poll is passed in the north, there will 100% be a similar vote in the republic to see what will happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,736 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    Agreed for sure the more realistic scenario is SF FF but both will campaign on getting/keeping the other out.

    Let's Indulge the concept of a Grand Left coalition for a bit 😃



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭spillit67


    So it’s SF, Soc Dems and Indos yeah? Can only really base it on existing TDs less the ones we know are gone. I can’t see Stanley involved and won’t include the gene poolers from other parties.

    Tanaiste and Education: Cairns

    Finance: Doherty

    Public expenditure: Mairead Farrell

    Foreign Affairs: Brady

    Justice: Pa Daly

    Housing: O’Broin

    Social protection: Gannon

    Health: Culinane

    Disabilities (take out third level portfolio): Gannon

    Environment: Whitmore

    Agriculture: Carthy

    Enterprise: O’Reilly

    Transport: O’Callaghan

    Gaeltacht: O Laoghaire

    Rural Affairs: Kerrane

    Arts, Sport, Tourism: Darren O’Rourke

    Both parties are really weak with a lack of depth. The Soc Dems have nobody with experience on finance so can’t even take public expenditure. Clearly you’d need PbP and Labour in there but even still the opposition benches are not great…

    I wonder would McDonald pull a James Dooge and bring a Northern MLA into the Senate.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,494 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I suspect that any and all coalition partners would insist Justice/Defence is kept away from SF, like Justice is basically reserved for Alliance or Independents in NI.

    A party of any scale would insist on having one of the Finance/DPER twins

    PBP would be down to maybe 2 in such a situation as would Labour, PBP would not be capable of going in to coalition as they will not give an inch on anything and SFs manifesto will be vastly too conservative for them. Labour would probably be Kelly and Bacik, who'd both want ministries for going in.



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