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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,180 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Im not sure why you would do that, unless it involves a minor, would it not best left to the victim to make a complaint?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Hello Guard, I'd like to report that 2 adults shared a hotel room, and a double bed, divided by a pillow, both agree nothing happened.

    Thanks Guard.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    ...and had dinner with followed by some drinks and then retiring to his room where she willingly stayed rhe night. I'm not really seeing the gross misconduct.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If he had been found innocent by SF and this lady was in the papers making her claims some of the folk here wouldn't be long telling you were the gross misconduct was.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Deflection isn't an answer! What did he do that warranted gross misconduct. There is no suggestion that he forced or coerced her to stay the night ao what did he do wrong and is it against SF "HR" policies for consenting adults to try it on?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yes there is if the Daily Mail is actually quoting her.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,180 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Ok - didnt see that. So why did she agree to share a room - why did she not leave the room?

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Well Stanley says it was purely platonic.

    There are two sides to the story here, always was. I don't know who is telling the truth. There isn't enough info and I am not privy to enough to decide.
    What I do know is that Stanley has used his time in public to try and undermine the inquiry process without going into detail and that does him no favours in my view.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,726 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    the inquiry from SF found her telling of the story to be very credible. MLMD also said that the woman was very distressed.

    I think it’s somewhat logical to assume that BS may have really frightened her in the room, pestered her for intimacy etc, and she was too scared to try leave. Sexual harrassment seeming to be what happened here, as what SF think

    The whole “why didn’t she leave and why go to room” are separate discussions. When a woman is in genuine fear/distress in these type situations, sometimes freezing and doing nothing is the body’s way of trying to cope and diffuse.

    It’s absolute ridiculous to think he booked the room for them without the intention for intimacy. She didn’t play ball and things got messy/scary for her.

    these just my thoughts on what happened. Not on any side or not slating anyone.



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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭squonk


    Fine but the logical progression is that she then A. Makes a complaint to the guards and B. Makes a formal complaint to the party. She did C. Try to blackmail BS and lie about photos she didn’t have. She loses all credibility because of her actions. She seems more like a bad actor than a victim. That then begs the question was she acting for herself or were her actions coordinated? Add to this the sudden elevation of BS’s wife. It’s all a bit suspect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,726 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Yes, the text sent about 60k was bad. Something she admits to, but that doesn’t mean that what she claims happened didn’t happen. She still pursued this after the ill-judged texting.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭squonk


    I think it calls into question anything she says. I’m not saying BS is not guilty. At the least he’s an idiot but idiocy isn’t illegal. By my reading she tried for the €60,000 but realised BS wasn’t going to roll over and play ball so reported the incident. It still says coordinated incident to me. Had the blackmail worked he’d be investigated for payments to hush up a potential sexual assault victim. Plan B. He made me spend the night in his room.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,077 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    According to a summary on the radio today, he had the room booked all along because he was staying in Dublin anyway for the dail.

    The big issue here that would really have helped Sinn Féin is if they actually had an independent review. As it is, you can make a claim that if SF, for whatever reason, wanted Stanley out they could use this investigation as the reason to turf him out.

    A finding from an independent panel would be much stronger than an internal sinn fein one, especially when the party is perceived to be extremely centralised when it comes to decisions across the board.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭spillit67


    You also know that MLMD says that if there is the mere suggestion of criminality that it is reported.

    If the woman is telling the truth, it was reported on August 2nd. Nothing done until it all blew up in SF’s face on October 12th.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,077 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    I think everybody knows that if Brian Stanley had done nothing and stayed quiet it's likely he'd not be nominated by the party for next election, there'd have been some statement about him standing down and a thank you for his service and we'd have heard nothing about this complaint/report.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Brian Stanley, who is a member of Sinn Fein, referred to kangaroo courts.

    You have no problem labelling others with pejorative terms like partitionist, even when they refute the label, but as soon as someone uses a term used by SF themselves, you object!!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Are you sure? Sinn Fein have said that there is no question about illegality on the part of BS. If he had tried something on, and she wasn't consenting, it would fall into the criminal category of attempted sexual assault.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    What you describe is attempted sexual assault, not harrassment. Why didn't she report him to the Gardai?

    Sinn Fein are caught in a big problem here. If they make a claim along the lines you set out, BS should have been reported to the Gardai. If they make a lesser claim, it falls well short of gross misconduct.

    The other big problem SF have is that MLMD and others have shown a different amount of support to the woman than they did to the victims of NOD and the victims of McMonagle. It really gives the impression that when it comes to child abuse, SF don't care.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I don't object, we have had kangaroo courts here on boards.ie where people have been found guilty on the basis of allegations and testimony that is dubious.

    Kangaroo courts happen therefore and this may have been one, but it is up to Stanley to tell us how it was one. He hasn't as yet.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,180 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    this is what she said

    She disputed Brian Stanley’s account, detailed in a draft internal inquiry report – that he slept on the floor of the hotel room in which they stayed while wearing pyjamas – insisting he slept in the bed in his boxer shorts.

    She also said he tried to convince her to remove the pillow she placed between them by saying it was hurting his back, then repeatedly asked her for ‘a cuddle, as a friend’.

    In his evidence to the inquiry, Brian Stanley strongly disputed the woman’s version of events.

    https://extra.ie/2024/10/27/news/irish-news/woman-brian-stanley-inquiry



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,776 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    My reading of it is that he behaved 'inappropriately', rather than illegally. It is not a criminal offence for a man to tell a woman "I want to have sex with you", even if they somehow happen to be sharing a hotel room.

    In the context of a work situation and two work colleagues for example, it would be something a female employee would report to her HR department, definitely not to the Gardaí.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    Asking for a cuddle is attempted sexual assualt now. It's amazing the utterly bizarre suggestions people will come up with to criticise SF.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭squonk


    Here is where it falls apart for me. OK, they decided to share a room. That’s fine. Placing a pillow between them? If BS isn’t offering to sleep on the floor it’s a red flag imho but let’s give them the benefit of the doubt and that was agreed. If he’s then asking for cuddles then things are progressing in the wrong direction. That’s the time you leave. I’d sooner spend a night on a chair in the lobby than in a dodgy situation like this. Of course if you figure this is worth €60,000 then you stay. It’s all quite strange but this stuff happens. If it was a genuine transgression the correct thing was for both to agree this situation wouldn’t arise again and the BS to apologise for crossing the line. This shouldn’t have gotten to any enquiry. However, once blackmail entered the stage, it’s absolutely a subject to be investigated. IMHO this woman isn’t sorry she looked for the pay off, she’s sorry she didn’t get it and the attempt to derail Stabley’s career isn’t working that well either. If this is a coordinated effort by members of the party to discredit Stanley it’s actually one of the biggest own goals in recent memory.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,898 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    How long did she leave Stanley with the demand for 60k (in batches of 10 for some unexplained reason) hanging over him?

    He would be majorly stressed every time his phone beeped.

    She claims she regretted making it almost immediately, was Stanley immediately informed of this change of mind?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,726 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    No, I didn’t describe sexual assault. If you read my post, you can infer more a sexual harassment situation, one that SF believe happened. Nowhere in my post did I describe or imply a sexual assault situation took place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,726 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Exactly. She was (in her view and SFs view) a victim of sexual harassment. Lil different than being a victim of sexual assault. SF believe her version, and they are going with a claim of sexual harassment.

    Her not reporting to AGS is nothing unusual.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,029 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    Conveniently broken down into the exact quantities needed to avoid anti-money laundering questions should she have gone to bank it if BS had paid up, theres a smell of sh1te off this and we're not being told the full details



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,779 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    😁 Who is going to put 60k of unaccounted for money into a bank?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Making things up again.

    Can you explain why asking for a cuddle is immediate gross misconduct, public naming and shaming for Stanley, but texting inappropriately a 16-year old and others is grounds for a praising reference from MLMD and a complete cover-up?



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