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Harris Vs Trump 2024 US Presidential election - read the warning in the OP posted 18/09/24

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,030 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Yeah, but it's not as simple as that. The Tories significantly shifted the Overton window, helped massively by the narrative that Trump introduced in 2016. Brexit was a bigger direct influence so they were already on their own path but the UK is now in a situation where a Labour government has removed fuel allowances from pensioners in its first winter in power and they a secretary for Health who is a big friend of private healthcare. These are acts which in the past would have been considered as something only the Tories would consider, and yet here we are.

    They also have a very influential (more so than the US) print media environment which will prime the electorate for the Tory return in either 2029, or 2034. It's quite depressing how difficult it is to genuinely break away from the chains that restrict progressive government options in both countries.



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    My assessment always has been that Starmer is Tory light, a candidate picked to be acceptable to the establishment of the UK. The agenda hasn't really changed just a softened dressing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,641 ✭✭✭basillarkin


    trump is going to win this in a canter



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Michelle is giving it wellies on behalf of Kamala pointing out to husbands and partners what Trump being elected will mean for their wives, girlfriends, daughters health care specifically their right to contraception, abortion and health provision so they don't have to go to the funerals of their female NOK because some male politicians have different considerations in mind on those issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Good lord, I miss having the ability to report posts...

    I've seen plenty of normal discussions here involving Romney, Bush, McCain supporters. To date never with Trump.

    I agree and that's for clearly obvious reasons.

    How can the 39 minute dance, "let's not have any more questions" town hall be defended?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,030 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    What makes you think that? Polls, gut feeling, commentary from some direction?

    He could well win, but if he does, it will be again having lost the popular vote so I don't know it that would count as being 'at a canter'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,016 ✭✭✭✭briany


    She may be telling the truth, but who's ears those words reach is the question. It's fine to have it for the rally attendees, since it may encourage them to knock on more doors and tell more people, but it would be great as well if her words could be directly reaching the ears of undecideds, because Michelle Obama is undeniably charismatic in a way few prominent Democrats are these days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,030 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I don't think there's much point trying to seek out and convince undecideds to select your side at this point. I'd much rather see them get 2M extra people to vote, rather than get a message to 5M hoping 1M will make a decision to rather Harris win.



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I wouldn't be holding your breath on any of that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,016 ✭✭✭✭briany


    You're talking to yourself. A lot of people on here who would be in favour of Harris or just anti-Trump already know that Trump is at least in with a very good shout of winning the thing. It's been discussed heavily on the last I don't know how many pages.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,121 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    If he wins, that’s democracy working which is great to see.

    I won’t be bitter or try to say it was rigged.

    Will you do the same if Harris was to win?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,030 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    usual suspects on here 

    Given you only joined this month, what do you mean by 'usual suspects'?

    Or, let's see how much you want to debate.

    What is it about Trump given how he performed in his first term and since then (failed to deliver on campaign promises/alienated US internationally/was laughed at by UN delegates/inflamed BLM environment/failed at Covid management/impeached for trying to extort Ukraine President/failed to accept election result/incited an insurrection/earned 80+ felonies/convicted of 34 of them)?

    You are a fan, why do you think that he would be a good option for the US to choose Trump for President in 10 days?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 247 ✭✭noc1980


    Considering Biden barely beat Trump despite his mishandling of Covid and how jaded the US was with Trump and the fact that both Biden and Hilary had large leads in the national polls, it's not looking good for Kamala. There's a very real possibility of a landslide win for Trump and maybe even win the popular vote.

    An appalling decision to gift her the nomination. Trump is out there saying he hates Taylor Swift, the door is wide open now to be yourself in American politics but she can't bring herself to be genuine and sincere when questioned. They'll regret not going with Newsom who is quick on his feet and has dealt with the attack dogs on Fox News comfortably.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,572 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    So the polling is on a knife's edge, you joined the thread to complain about people saying Harris would win. Now you're adamantly saying Trump will win , aren't you guilty of what you were complaining about?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Newsom?

    Not a hope.

    Landslide win?

    Not a hope.

    Popular vote?

    Not a hope.

    The polls are meaningless this cycle, as are the betting markets. They've been gamed and interfered with so much they can be completely discounted because they are so distorted.

    We don't know who'll win. We don't even know who's in the lead right now. It seems to be common knowledge that the Republicans and their agents are the ones interfering with the polls and the markets, so you'd have to ask why.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,030 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Can. you. tell. us. why. you. want. Trump. to. win?

    That was the clear question you were asked. Can you answer it.

    The Biden/Harris administration has been objectively very good. That is patently obvious. The Covid recovery act did exactly what it was supposed to do. Immediately once Biden became President, the messaging about Covid practices and vaccine roll out immmediately became professional and ultimately was a big success. The Chips and Science Act, the Infrastructure Act. Both significant pieces of legislation that will help America prepare for the coming decades. These acts were so popular, Republican members of congress who voted against them, still used them as part of their communication message back to their district. Biden produced legislation that the Border Guards association, and house republicans said it would make a positive impact in that issue, until Trump told them to kill it because he knew it would be successful, and he didn't want that. They delivered on the debt forgiveness that they promised for many people (something Republicans pushed back on also, even some of those who had Covid Support loans forgiven). The Stock markets have never been better, unemployment has been it's lowest in decades. I will fotever judge Biden negatively for his blanket support for Israels butchery of Palestinians, but I will praise him for his support for Ukraine and his level headed interactions with fellow heads of state worldwide. I am not and will never claim Biden to be perfect, but on his worst day in office, he was light years ahead of Trump on his best day.

    So, go ahead and tell us why you want someone who failed in many ways and who has most of the staff who worked in him in the oval office say that they want Biden to win.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,921 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    polls are meaningless , betting is meaningless but you know the republicans have caused this and it's common knowledge. It's not just the far right who like a good conspiracy theory



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    80 low grade polls dumped on the public in the last two weeks, all paid for by the GOP - so ye we know the Republicans have gamed the polls.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭accensi0n


    If Harris wins.

    All the momentum was behind Trump! It must have been stolllllen!!!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 486 ✭✭Psychedelic Hedgehog


    I view the recent resurrection of Trump supporting accounts, old and new, all clamouring around how much trouble Harris is in, as an indication of just how much doo-doo Trump and the GOP are actually in. Flooding the zone with sh*t, as Steve Bannon would say.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,666 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    With the way the polling is trending I wouldn't be surprised if he wins the popular vote.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,030 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Nah, he lost popular vote by 7M in 2020, can't see that being overturned with everything that has gone on since.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,666 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Biden was 10% ahead in the average national polling at this point in the campaign in 2020, Harris is currently just 1% ahead. Trump will be ahead in polling come election day if the current trend continues.

    I really wouldn't be surprised to see him win the popular vote, it could be 'the story' on election day.

    If the polling trend continues it won't be a close result electoral college wise. He's ahead in five of the seven battleground states, and the polls have significantly under represented him in the last two elections. Harris is less than 1% ahead in the other two battlegrounds, so Trump could very well win all battleground states pretty comfortably.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,394 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Just going by early voting, the Dem vote* is down 8mil and the GOP down 3mil, the independent down 24 mil.
    *party affiliation.

    That's enough to give Trump the popular vote, assuming the other 17.5mil Dems who voted early last time, don't turn up on the day. There has been talk of record early voting etc… but that all seems to favor the GOP this cycle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,016 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Winning the popular vote would be a good deal more surprising since Harris support is strong in population centres like New York and California.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Source?

    Because the reporting I've read, has most states up in their early voting: Early voting in Georgia has brought in over 50% of the same TOTAL turnout in 2020. That's huge. You can read about the 2020 numbers here:

    https://electproject.github.io/Early-Vote-2020G/GA.html

    The Hill reports as of this morning, GA had already surpassed 2.6 M early in-person votes - which matches with the total early vote turnout in 2020, not counting mail-ins. Less than 1 million people voted in person on election day in 2020. 4,925,487 votes were counted total, 2,694,763 were in person early votes, 1,320,154 were mail ins. The population of Georgia, meanwhile, has remained nearly flat since 2020 according to Macrotrends:

    The population of Georgia in 2023 was 11,029,227, a 1.06% increase from 2022. The population of Georgia in 2022 was 10,913,150, a 1.14% increase from 2021. The population of Georgia in 2021 was 10,790,385, a 0.54% increase from 2020. The population of Georgia in 2020 was 10,732,390, a 0.98% increase from 2019.

    Georgians still have a week to early vote, until the end of Friday. It's reasonable to assume, though we will know next Saturday, that Georgia blows the 2020 record outta the water.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4954994-georgia-early-voting-inches-toward-2020-turnout/

    As for Wisconsin, the other report that came up when I searched the news for Early Voting, it's up as well. By a lot.

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/wisconsin-elections-officials-report-40-increase-early-voting-115164487

    I'm curious where it's supposedly down. Overall, nationally?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,921 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Really? I thought early voting was really high so far?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,394 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    https://targetearly.targetsmart.com/g2024?comparison_years=2020&comparison_years=2024&count_prefix=final_eav_voted_count_&demo_filters=%5B%7B%22key%22%3A%22registeredParty%22%2C%22value%22%3A%22All%22%7D%5D&view_type=National

    image.png

    Yes, that's a national comparison based on 11 days out from 2020 and 11 days out from 2024. There is a lag with the 2024 figures. But not in the % difference between registered parties (26.4% down to 21.8% vs 15.5% up to 18.1%)

    You're not comparing like for like. The Georgia early in person voting is exceptional (2.6mil so far vs 2.7mil for all of 2024)
    Mail in is 330k so far vs 1.3mil in 2024.

    In Georgia Trump got 1.4mil votes from early voting and Biden got 1.25mil.
    However on the mail in, Trump got 450k and Biden got 850k.
    Early voting is on par so far with 2020, however, in person voting (which in 2020 favoured Trump) is looking similar, but the mail in voting which favoured Biden is lagging.

    Based on 2020 distribution, Trump gets 53% in person early votes, Harris gets 47% (1.38 vs 1.22) Trump +160k
    Mail in, Trump gets 35%, Harris gets 65% (115k vs 214k) Harris +99
    Net result Trump +66k from early voting.
    On the day noting, Trump lead Biden by 590k to 370k.
    Brings Trump up on Harris by 286k.

    Now I know that's just a crude example, but it's assuming those 1 million ballots people posted back in 2020 will be posted back or if they turn up in person will favor Harris over Trump.

    Yes, your link for Wisconsin mentions early voting being up, 292k vs 209k, that's an increase, but then they go on with early voting (which includes mail in) 1.9mil mail in votes in 2020….

    image.png

    The horizontal line is obviously the lag, but the trend is clear to see. The headlines mention in-persona voting being sky high, but the postal ballots have dropped significantly.

    *Huge disclaimer, I could be reading all this wrong and I am open for correction.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Deleted original as the O/P ain't around to read it.



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