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Luas Finglas

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Comments

  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,807 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    In fairness, a lot of what people are complaining about is the planning and legal aspects of infrastructure projects, which isn't under the purview of the Minister for Transport. It's not his fault that ABP took three years to make a decision on the level crossings in Cork, it wasn't his decision to require two lengthy non-statutory consultations on Metrolink, it wasn't his decision to understaff ABP so that they had to tell government departments not to submit projects due to the backlog.

    I'd struggle to see what a different minister could have done differently, to be honest. A couple of roads projects, yeah, definitely, they could have been progressed under someone else, but then again, should they have? Would that have taken away from the focus on Dart+, BusConnects and Metrolink? People are talking as if the NTA, TII and ABP weren't already maxed out in terms of ability to do projects. Should we delay one of those projects to progress, say the M20? I'd be a strong no on that front.

    It's only now that Metrolink, Dart+ and the Core Corridor projects are moving through planning that we're hearing about Fingluas getting higher priority, and I think that those two things are very much linked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 201 ✭✭Toranaga


    Sure he was out running people over for years according to the people of Macroom. That's worse than all of those people clearly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    During Eamon Ryan's tenure as Transport Minister, the vast majority of bus lanes in Dublin have been made 24/7, which in my opinion and experience has made a material improvement to bus times. Although some private vehicles are still using bus lanes, I've noticed a massive decrease. Removing the ambiguity of timed bus lanes removes any excuse or doubt from drivers - and the majority of people do not want to break the law. Additionally, an increasing level of junctions in the city give priority to buses with longer light sequences.

    During his tenure as Transport Minister, bus gates on the quays have been introduced, again making a massive improvement to bus times.

    During his tenure as Transport Minister, cycling infrastructure has made giant leaps all across the cities. The totally disjointed network of cycle lanes is starting to resemble an actual network.

    During his tenure as Transport Minister, in Dublin alone, plans have been submitted to ABP for 12x core bus corridors, Dart+ West, Dart+ South West and Metrolink, with Luas Finglas soon to follow.

    Whether or not you directly credit Eamon Ryan and the Greens with any, all or none of these is irrelevant. All of these things happened during Eamon Ryan's tenure as Transport Minister.

    I doubt I'm even touching the surface with other groundwork he has laid across the state for other projects. I have friends who work in EirGrid and the Geological Survey of Ireland and they speak of him very positively in terms of groundwork /legislation he has worked on to enable an improved electricity network and offshore wind developments.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 977 ✭✭✭JPup


    I think the next government, whichever parties it is composed of, will benefit from the ground work that's been put in over the past 5 years. People here are understandably frustrated with the lack of visible progress in recent years but that was largely down to a complete collapse of An Bord Pleanála post financial crisis and the disfunctional planning system that means for example that the Metro has been caught in limbo for more than two years now.

    ABP is being reformed, renamed and much better resourced thankfully. The new planning bill should help all future projects progress more smoothly. And between this year and next, we should see planning approval for all the BusConnects routes in Dublin, all the DART+ lines and the new metro (many of these will be subject to judicial review of course).

    I think Eamon Ryan has done more to promote those projects than a generic FG, FF or SF minister would have. But the fruits of his efforts won't be evident for another few years yet.

    That in a nutshell is why successive governments in Ireland have been so shortsighted when it comes to big infrastructure projects. It's always the next minister (or the one after) who gets to cut the ribbon and take credit for the work you are doing today.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭Westernview


    "That in a nutshell is why successive governments in Ireland have been so shortsighted when it comes to big infrastructure projects. It's always the next minister (or the one after) who gets to cut the ribbon and take credit for the work you are doing today."

    I agree. And that's where Ryan differed. His thinking is long term and he has a vision for the country. I get no sense that he is personally interested in ribbon cutting other than to use those occasions to show progress and get people on board with what needs to be done.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,641 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Errr.. BusConnects was from 2017, during a FG government, well before Eamon Ryan or the Green Party had any involvement in government!

    The first 24/7 bus routes launched in 2019, a year before the Green Party entered government. And the College Green Bus gate also dates years before them, though it was extended to 24/7 under his tenure, fair enough.

    To be honest, almost all the major transport projects, Metrolink, BusConnects, DART+ stem from plans under a FG lead government. To be honest I struggle to think of what he has really added in his time as minister. Maybe a slightly better focus on cycling and local link. But it is a pretty disappointing few years for a green minister IMO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Restarting the Luas Finglas project–which readers with especially long memories may remember was once the topic of this thread–was one of Eamon Ryan’s first acts as Minister for Transport.

    We’ve had bus and rail plans in this country for decades, but they always seemed to be low down on the list of priorities for whatever Minister was in charge. How quickly we have forgotten the tenure of Shane Ross, formerly "Minister for (transport), Tourism and SPORT!"

    DART Expansion was part of the previous government’s NDP, but honestly, it’s pretty easy to make a slide deck - I’ve seen the Dart Underground ones loads of times. Actually bringing this plan forward to where it is now, with all ROs submitted, one (mostly) granted, and the new trains arriving is down to Ryan’s actions. This is a project that could so easily have been long-fingered.

    The fact that nothing has yet been delivered in five years is a wider problem that we really need to address as a nation. As I noted above, initial public consultation for Luas Finglas was kicked off well over four years ago - in other countries, it would be under construction or even in revenue service by now, even allowing for Covid-19.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,820 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The huge uplift on Locallink appears to have started after he entered office; although Locallink itself was started in the FF-Ind government before the Greens first time in office and was rebranded and extended under FG-Labour



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,728 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The Connecting Ireland project along with the 20% reduction in fares for everyone and the 50% reduction in fares for younger people (and the extension of ages) are most certainly Green Party initiatives.

    Connecting Ireland also has a lot of BÉ expansion around the country too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    Yes but all of these were submitted to ABP during his tenure. Plans are nothing but ideas until they get legs and real planning actually starts. It is not a coincidence that more public transport infrastructure projects have been submitted to ABP, during the Greens tenure in government, than at any time in the history of the state.

    I meant 24/7 bus lanes, rather than bus routes, to be clear. The Greens have totally changed the narrative in the city and driven a new focus on public transport. As others have said, it's a shame more results aren't clearly visible.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,728 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    With the new government spending code it is still up to the minister of the day to get the projects through the several cabinet approval gates along the way.

    All of these projects now rely on the initial decision and then subsequent cabinet approvals to get through the planning and construction process.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,641 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Do you honestly think any of these plans would have gone ahead to planning without full cabinet approval?! That simply isn't how any of this works!

    These are all very much FG lead projects, which are currently being advanced by a FG/FF/Green government. They have the full support of all the parties in government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I hear they’re running the Luas to Finglas now…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,366 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Restarting the Luas Finglas project––was one of Eamon Ryan’s first acts as Minister for Transport.

    That isn't true, this is the original archived site for the project;

    Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII) in collaboration with the National Transport Authority (NTA) has been exploring options for this proposed extension since 2018



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Ireland trains


    The state of the planning system seems to be an easy scapegoat for other delays. This article’s from 2020. https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/2020/0826/1161397-dart-extension/

    ”The NTA say it is beginning public consultations with a planning application to be made next year with a completion date for 2024” - a RO wasn’t even lodged till the second half of 2022. Same with DART North, 2.5 years from first consultation to RO seems extremely slow. Same with Luas finglas, wasn’t there an article at the beginning of summer saying a RO was ready. Why wasn’t it brought to cabinet sooner?

    He seemed to be good at the smaller bits such as local link, which while beneficial, are far less so than these mass transit projects.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    Yes, full cabinet approval with a Green Party in government. The point is - it's unlikely a coincidence that so many PT projects received planning approval while the Green Party were in government. This is not a statement of fact, it is simply an opinion, and a very reasonable one.

    Had the Green Party not been in government (with FG/FF), it's very likely less of these projects would have received government approval. Most likely, a bunch of road projects would have instead and, perhaps, only 1 Dart+ project and maybe half of the CBCs would have gone to ABP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,100 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    So we’ll get 4km more of Luas by 2031.

    I thought this was due in 2028?

    An absolute shambles of a country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Correct, and this announcement is more good news.

    Public transport projects take time, they span over a number of governments. The Greens have kept them all moving in this current government, we need them back to keep the progress going.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Like anyone lose sane, he quickly saw the SW proposals didn’t stack up.

    His achievement really wasn’t coming in and chopping things up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Covid.

    Anyway, I stand by my belief that the Finglas extension (and other Luas projects) have been held back because of the desire to get Metrolink through.

    We should be aiming for 2.5km of new track annually in Dublin.

    Really hoping that the envisaged further extension beyond Finglas also happens in the early 2030s.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭minikin


    Would it make sense to extend this Finglas plan out to the airport? Hell of a lot cheaper than any proposed metro.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭spillit67




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    No, it wouldn’t. It would end up being a lot slower than the existing airport bus service, and it would mean taking a huge detour northeast from Finglas, a lot of which would just be through the airport’s exclusion zone (i.e., no passenger demand opportunities) to reach the terminal buildings.

    Finglas seems to be the natural endpoint for this line. A second branch from Broombridge to Tyrrelstown is planned.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,820 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I'd have no problem with a Finglas to Airport Luas, once it is delivered as its own project without ever being considered as a 'replacement' for anything else.

    Manchester has its trams to the airport, but you'd always use the rail link if going to the city centre. They're there because plenty of airport workers live along the route.

    I'd far prefer this line to be extended to meet Metrolink though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Theres no need for a winding Finglas extension towards the airport. Simply extend it from Charlestown via Margaret's Road to the Metro stop at Northwood. This will allow a 1 change connection for those looking to head towards the Airport. It would be a free transfer under the 90 minute fare as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    I am very much in the camp of not extending it to the airport. It should however be extended in time (once Metrolink construction is underway) to the Metrolink stop at Northwood. This would pass through the already very busy Hampton Wood area, serve the popular Ikea & Decathlon and also the massive new DCC facilities HQ which is a big employer. It would also link the whole area from Domnick Street, Broadstone, Phibsboro, Cabra, Finglas with a one change rail link to the airport and out to Swords.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,641 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    And this is the perfect example of why the Finglas Luas extension has been delayed by years. I believe there is a real fear amongst planners that if it was built before Metrolink, that people would want it extended to the airport instead of Metrolink.

    If there wasn't this concern, I suspect this extension would have been done originally as part of the original Luas cross city project. Sucks that it was necessary, but understandable.

    As p_haugh says above, one Metrolink is build, it makes sense to extend the Finglas Luas to meet the Metrolink at Northwood.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,641 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I'm sorry I couldn't disagree with you more. Why wouldn't FG approve of their own projects!

    And with the Greens been very much the junior partners, if FG/FF didn't want these, they simply wouldn't have gotten cabinet approval.

    I'll give praise where praise is due, as LX_Flyer mentions the various reduced fares I remember being Green Party policy, so fair play on him executing on that important change.

    But I'm pretty disgusted at anyone trying to suggest Eamon Ryan had much to do with Metrolink/DAT+/BusConnects. These were very much FG projects.

    Eamon Ryan did his best to kill Metrolink before he became minister and frankly he has been very wishy washy on it and the other major projects since becoming minister. I see him very rarely talk about Metrolink or come out and defend it and give it the sort of public leadership that it deserves. It seems more interested in bike lanes.

    I'd argue that Metrolink and the other major projects are advancing despite his meddling. Because they are projects developed and pushed by the DoT/NTA/TII and supported by the larger parties in government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Agreed, that would make sense, and save on an unnecessary bridge over the M50 to nowhere.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭Westernview


    There is no evidence that Ryan is more interested in bike lanes than the metro and he is fully behind it. Bike lanes get done more quickly as there is obviously less complexity and cost involved. That doesn't mean they have more importance. These quotes would pass any test for 'defending it'. Metro ties in perfectly with his aims to get people out of cars.

    Announcing the decision, Minister Ryan said:

    "MetroLink is a once in a generation project that is going to massively transform the public transport system in our capital city. This project in various guises has been on the table now for 2 decades, but the government’s decision on the MetroLink Preliminary Business Case marks a significant milestone. Now this exciting transport megaproject starts to become a reality. We are giving the green light to a transport system that will be integral to the city and the country’s sustainable development in this century, and into the next.

    "MetroLink is hardwired to our climate ambitions. It will provide over 1 billion carbon neutral, fully electrified, passenger trips by 2050. Over 175,000 people and 250,000 jobs will be accessible to the stations by foot alone. By interchanging with other public transport systems such as DART and Luas, MetroLink connects to more than a million people in the Dublin area, and more across Ireland. The project will improve the quality of the urban environment and people’s lives, as well as enable the development of more well-connected homes in and around our capital city. It will contribute to a shift from the private car to more sustainable travel, helping to decarbonise the transport sector in line with government policy.



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