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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Gerry is still involved heavily with the party and is invited to all of the Sinn fein get togethers.

    MLMD even said after the last election he would be involved in the negotiations with other parties

    I said a long time ago the Sinn fein online supporters which was created to attract new voters to SF is doing the exact opposite.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭squonk


    The huge problem in SF is that they’re the political wing of the IRA. Terrorist organisations operate differently from regular organisations because they have to. Secrecy is a paramount value and a tightly coupled rank structure along with mistrust anyone outside the group. Even with the best will in the world, if you’re used to using a hammer, you’ll use that to solve every problem. The old guard infuse the old paramilitary culture into SF and those who grew up around the organisation can’t see why it’s wrong either. SF likely need a fresh start as a separate party in their own right. Only being free from all this baggage will the culture change and attracting a wider spectrum of active members will Stephen that new culture more. Sometime it’ll happen. There will probably be a stage where enough members realise the status quo is hindering them and will vote with their feet, split the party and leave the SF as we know it to die out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,515 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    They took action as soon as an investigation into McMonagle began. They tool action against those involved in the references. The police don't need SF's assistance there if a crime was committed.
    They reported O'Donghaile to the PSNI and the Social Services in the jurisdiction were it occurred.
    They handed the file and the file on Stanley's case to the gardai.
    Was there an obligation to report O'Dongaile to the Gardai when they had no evidence he had done it here? I don't know.

    And they need to again recognise the failing and review and fix protocols if they had a legal obligation to do that as they have done in the McMonagle case.
    I'll probably get slammed for saying this, but as it is rolled out ad nauseum and to the point of parody elsewhere, I think that ''lessons needed to be learned' from Adams etc and they have demonstrated that they are 'learning from the lessons' and look like they will continue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,577 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Just wondering - how good an election do SF need to have for any questions over MLMD's leadership to go away? And how bad an election would make it an absolute must change the leadership situation?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,488 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Good: any seat gains at all; retaining all the ones where the TD elected for them in 2020 is retiring or is now running against them would both be seen as good wins at this stage

    Bad: under 25, which is looking very likely now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,073 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Is it her that makes that decision though? Some would be of the opinion is it her masters in the AC in Belfast.

    Would be nice if she stepped down, her insufferable voice and condescending nature really leaves an increasingly poor impression as time goes on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    People seem to forget that the local election in 2019 was a disaster for MLMD and she was whispered to get moved away

    The election in 2020 was the chance for SF to get a majority but poor planning from MLMD meant they lost didn't predict the revolt election which happened, with people just voting for SF TD's with no idea who the TD was or what they would do. SF should have done better

    Then again the local election this year was a huge letdown for SF no matter how they try and spin it.

    Now the general election is coming up and it aint looking good.

    When has MLMD has a good election might be a better question to ask and how long will SF continue to run with her?

    Now the other question is you move out MLMD who replaces her? Pearse?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,923 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    We've a poster here who in the past has tried to argue that Liam Adams wasn't paedophile because he only had one known victim.

    When that's the mentality you are dealing with what hope is there for any sort of rational behaviour?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,591 ✭✭✭standardg60


    There aren't any lessons to be learnt, they know exactly what they're doing and it's done purposely. Ie keep everything away from the authorities until they have no other option.

    Take BS, an uncriminal allegation is made against him, he makes a counter possibly criminal one, they ignore it and find him guilty of gross misconduct. He has enough, resigns and goes public breaking the omerta. Hey presto straight to the guards so no one in SF can possibly comment on the matter.

    If BS had kept quiet, accepted his fate which was probably being replaced on the ticket all along, this possibly criminal matter would never have seen the light of day. That's how it's worked all along but the good ship SF is starting to creak.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,120 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    HHe is a fairly independent political commentator at this stage. 12 months ago he made a call that MLMD was a shoe in for Toiseach and could see no hope of FG being part of the next government, what a difference 12 months makes

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,923 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    War time leaders very rarely make good peace time leaders, Mandela is a great example here of knowing when to hand over to the next generation.

    SF seem to be running themselves as an authoritarian dictatorship and they'll keep having these issues to learn from (and constant media blaming and SLAPPS) until they change their structure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭spillit67


    I don’t think that is good at all when you consider 14 extra TDs and that they “underperformed” their vote share last time.

    It might be realistic at this stage but won’t be good, as in such a scenario both FF and FG would likely have picked up half of those new seats and they’d be the clear #1 and #2.

    And then if you consider the Soc Dems and Labour. If they could somehow get to 20 between the two of them there would be a real question in my mind on who the lead opposition is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Gerry Adams was in a political party, he wasn't a "war time leader"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,923 ✭✭✭✭astrofool




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,515 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    In the two other cases, they acted on what the authorities did in one and informed the authorities in the other.

    Your theory may very well be correct on the Stanley issue but raises questions too.

    How do you know the finding against him?
    Why didn't Stanley go to the Gardai himself and how should they have handled an internal complaint?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭spillit67


    MLMD explicitly said if there had been a hint of criminality on the allegation against Stanley, it would have gone to the Guards.

    That don’t happen for his allegation.

    That’s the end of it, you can keep muddying the waters but that’s how it played out.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 45,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    SF voters in supporting SF shocker!

    Ah come on, you are not supporting SF in the manner that someone might support party A or party B.
    You have spent the last number of days robustly defending the party to the extent that one would be forgiven for assuming that you hold a role in their PR dept!

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,488 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I think it'd be good enough to save her role, considering it's no longer a plausible outcome!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    BS has been in SF for years, he knows what is going on in the party

    When you see the party sending around people to members for putting up a few tweets

    Random members of the public afraid to go to Gardai until SF confirm they can

    I guess he didn't go to the Gardai because he might "disappear" or have a nasty accident like a lot of other people who didn't do what SF or the PIRA wanted.

    Safest way was to do what BS did, make a statement in the press, then if someone strange happens everyone will be asking question of SF

    DOn't forget all the links between SF and organised crime, what would happen if one of the Kinahans, friends of SF, decided they wanted to go to the Garda?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,515 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Clearly you haven't seen the defences mounted in various government scandals.

    At all times I have allowed for more information and proof of the allegations being proven.
    I said when the statement on O'Donghaile's resignation emerged that I thought it was resigning matter if a credible explanation was not forthcoming.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,515 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    She also said they don't know if it was criminal or not and it's with the Gardai to decide. She takes responsibility for the decision when she was made aware of it. Presumably because there was a 'hint' of criminality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Pointless



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,923 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Patricia Ryan serves as a SF councillor and TD over a number of years. Resigns over what appears to be a selection dispute. Not a hint of wrong-doing on the part of Ryan is suggested by anyone.

    Niall Ó Donnghaile serves as a SF councillor and Senator over a number of years. Resigns over sending inappropriate text messages to minors.

    Guess which one gets a glowing public reference from Mary Lou McDonald?

    Credible explanation indeed.

    If she had a shred of decency in her she would have remained silent following his resignation much like she has done for Ryan's resignation - but instead she actively participated in covering up his misdeeds for him.

    I guess she's idolised Adams so much she wanted to copy him in that regard as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,325 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    *I don't and never have idolised anyone, Adams is a flawed leader with all the human frailties and mistakes that leaders make and I never voted for SF with him as leader.

    Given your historical posts for this account, (and the other account), this is a lie.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭paul71




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The election result won't make or break MLMD as leader of the party. History would suggest that she'll remain as leader of the party for many years to come. MON was under serious pressure a few years ago and everyone in NI thought she was going to be replaced.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Im shocked, shocked I say that he/she has lied.

    Anyway I think it is easier just to ignore the gibberish as at this stage



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Again I refer back

    Adams is rolled out by MLMD at every main event

    She also wanted him to negotiate with other parties after the last election

    That alone provides a massive insight in MLMD and SF



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79,515 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    In O'Donghaile's case SF could have awaited the PSNI decision not to prosecute and never said anything, and nobody would ever have been the wiser.

    Instead, they removed him from the senate and the party.

    I have already said the tribute was OTT, but I can see why she was in an impossible position, say nothing and raise a controversy when someone is in a bad place mentally or issue a statement and move on.

    And I have said if it emerges that his mental health situation was a concoction between him and SF then that is indeed a resigning matter.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 691 ✭✭✭Apothic_Red


    Through a contact in Kildare Co Co I finally learned the particulars of the Stanley accusation & counter claim.

    Don't worry mods I wont be sharing any of it here.

    Suffice to say it's a hill of beans that should've been shut down internally day 1. A complete own goal for SF. Funnily enough their own internal structures have exacerbated the whole thing.



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