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Ireland - now considered one of most vulnerable countries in the EU (defense wise)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,948 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    We don't know how the world will develop over the next 30 years. Who would have predicted the situation in Ukraine 10 years ago?

    We need an adequate defence force the current one is woefully inadequate. A capacity to monitor our airspace and seas. A capability to show some fight if invaded or a takeover of some size. I know we couldn't defeat a military power but we don't need to just make it not worth it. As for Guerillar war where would these trained men come from? where would they get their weapons etc?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,237 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Do you not have any love for your native land or pride in being Irish?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,237 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    In other words, we need to make an effort. Every other Western country our size or greater does. I have difficulty believing I am having this conversation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,237 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Russia and China don’t give a tinker’s damn about our precious neutrality or the fact that we’re not British. Likewise, Finns, Swedes and Spaniards are all the same to them - part of the West and natural troublemakers. Freedom anywhere threatens the regimes of Putin and Xi and they will ceaselessly work to discredit and erode our liberal system by every means possible. The notion that recent events in Eastern Europe have nothing to do with us is a very naive one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    Our main threat is not from the Russians, it is from the British, they have helped terrorists blow up Irish civilians and shot Irish civilians.

    If there was a major war, they would have no problem invading us to "protect us" See the bombing of the French Navy or the invasion of Iceland in WWII.

    They never invaded us in WWII because they did not need to.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,948 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    If we all felt that way it would encourage the likes of Putin to do just that. You think that your life would continue as normal under Russian/Other rule?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,948 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Yes, i'd say that is correct we need to have a defence that would make it not worth it to them or anyone else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    See operation Keelhaul from the end of world war 2 as well. A real demonstration of British perfidity.

    Britain and America knowingly and forcibly repatriated thousands of Russians and Eastern Europeans to certain death . That’s what countries do to protect their interests .
    Some of the Russians repatriated had left Russia in 1917 and here they were being sent back by the British in 1945.
    The Americans even rounded up long assimilated Russians in New Jersey and sent them back into the arms of Stalin .



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭thatsdaft


    If only the Russians in Europe these days could be rounded up and sent back too, instead of sitting around while they carry out crimes and sabotage



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,237 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Europe has many small countries that could not resist Russia on their own. However, together we are more than a match for Putin. We need to understand this and do our bit to deter the spread of authoritarianism in the world. I should not have to add that our current quality of life in Ireland is much better than it would be if Russian or Chinese influence were greater here.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,237 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Nearly everybody in the world thinks their health service is in a woeful state. In my province in Canada between a quarter and a third of the population no longer have GPs. No Eastern European country has a health service as good as Ireland’s.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,237 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Britain and America are flawed countries with terrible histories but that doesn’t mean we should equate their influence here today with that of Russia or China. If a friend is unreliable and annoying, would it be wise to start palling round with the local drug dealer instead? Chalk and cheese.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,878 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    In the previous thousands of years Ireland has only been invaded once AND didn't we even invite them. Stop worrying and playing war games lads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,237 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Ireland was occupied by successive waves of people over the last ten thousand years. One early group, the hunter gatherers, has almost completely disappeared from the genetic record and I doubt that was an entirely peaceful transition. Roughly speaking, the Neolithic farmers came after that and the pastoralists, including the Celts eventually. I would count the Vikings as serial invaders too. Since 1169, we have suffered multiple invasions from Britain.

    So much for the past. The world is a much smaller place these days. If you look around you can see signs of Chinese influence cropping up all over the place. Russia seems to be throwing its lot in with China which it makes it a much more dangerous threat. There is zero room for complacency, denial or defeatism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,878 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    The Chinese have been here for many years. I'm just after ordering from mine.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Could be worse. Imagine living in a country like Sweden, Finland, Norway, Netherlands, Austria or Denmark. Spending all that money on the military, they have no ambulance service at all. Of course, they have a different culture. The Happiest Nation on Earth is so partially because they have a sense of community and shared responsibility to make up for the lack of ambulances. Reasonable enough, most everyone goes through the military.

    Not that the Netherlands or Denmark are particularly at risk of Russian invasion either, but they do seem to understand that security for all equals security for themselves. If Ireland considers countries like Poland or Lithuania to be friends, what measures will Ireland take to look after its friends when they need help? It doesn't need to be tanks, maybe cyber capabilities? Medevac? Engineers?

    Of course the reality is that things won't change absent outside events. Maybe Trump will come back into power and remove Ireland from "favoured nation" status and disincentivice US companies from working there until the infrastructure (Physical or cyber) can be protected.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,645 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Irish history was always sort of influenced from outside, no matter if it was military or civilian/economic investment.

    When WW2 started various nations were stating their claim around the North Atlantic. The Faroe Islands, Iceland, etc. were for the Brits, they also thought about Norway, but ze Germans were quicker. Ireland got lucky and was spared. However any island in the North Atlantic would certainly be of strategic interest, - even though it was civilian, the Russians used Shannon in the 80ies, so the interest is certainly there. Some people in Ireland would still deny this.

    The Fouga Magister planes of the Irish Air corps went out of service in 1998 and were not replaced. So if there is a contract with the RAF to protect Irish air space and let's speculate, it runs speculatively for 30 years, it'll be 2028 by the time Ireland needs a new solution for fighter jets for air defences.

    And as the RAF from Scotland has been noticed over the Republic of Ireland's air space there must be a contract / agreement, otherwise it'll be an air space intrusion.

    I would suspect that the Irish air defences would look at fighter jets from 2028 onwards. That would mean that by 2025 or 2026 they would need to make a decision to get the orders in. Most likely something for the next government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,948 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    True and we were occupied for the last few hundred part still is at least to many. If Trump gets in we may find that he will say EU can look after itself dfence wise and any country not willing to pay can be given to his pal Putin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭highpitcheric


    OK Polands not willing to pay.

    Lets see Trump 'give Poland to Putin'.

    That should work out grand.

    Like Ukraine.

    Come take it, as the gun loons love to boast.

    Bailey had a borderline personality" based on "narcissism, psycho-rigidity, violence, impulsiveness, egocentricity with an intolerance to frustration and a great need for recognition".

    • Psychiatrist Jean Michel Masson and psychologist Katy Lorenzo-Regreny


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,948 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Poland is spending 4.7% of GDP on defence! bad example. Nato is asking for just 2%.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭highpitcheric


    "and any country not willing to pay can be given to his pal Putin."

    Ok lets just amend that a little shall we

    … and any country not willing to pay can be given to his pal Putin. Except Poland.

    Or Finland, who've been stockpiling since the 50's.

    Which effectively cuts off Europe proper.

    And sinks your theory.

    That was quick.

    Bailey had a borderline personality" based on "narcissism, psycho-rigidity, violence, impulsiveness, egocentricity with an intolerance to frustration and a great need for recognition".

    • Psychiatrist Jean Michel Masson and psychologist Katy Lorenzo-Regreny


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,948 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Many countries don't spend 2% or more on defence including us. We are woefully exposed after Putins victory today Sorry trump's victory.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭highpitcheric


    And how tf is Russia supposed to get to them without going through Poland or Finland first.

    Bailey had a borderline personality" based on "narcissism, psycho-rigidity, violence, impulsiveness, egocentricity with an intolerance to frustration and a great need for recognition".

    • Psychiatrist Jean Michel Masson and psychologist Katy Lorenzo-Regreny


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,948 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    They have just got the USA. It wouldn't take a massive force to take Ireland by sea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭highpitcheric


    😄

    Ok. Ok. I think the Poland, Finland thing is enough for 1 day.

    We're making progress.

    Bailey had a borderline personality" based on "narcissism, psycho-rigidity, violence, impulsiveness, egocentricity with an intolerance to frustration and a great need for recognition".

    • Psychiatrist Jean Michel Masson and psychologist Katy Lorenzo-Regreny


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The risk to Ireland is not a physical invasion. It is asymmetric warfare and the general destabilisation of Europe as a continent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,948 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Yes but after a destabilization an invasion could follow?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,948 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    With Trump now threatening Iceland, Greenland, Panama, Mexico and even Canada the World is desabilizing fast. Surely undefended Ireland should increase defence spend now to at least deter agression what argument can be made not to now?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,858 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Y'all should have turned up and voted



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭Exiled Rebel




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