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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    By saying it, it would have ended all the speculation as to what it was about. He could have also stated what the conclusion of the report was and how and why he disagreed with it. He said he just made vague accusations with little to no substance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,973 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    Earlier, Mr Stanley said Sinn Féin should have referred a complaint to gardaí when he brought serious matters to the attention of the party's disciplinary panel on 11 September.

    Was this also the date that the inquiry members told Stanley to go to the Gardaí? Should the first complaint not have been put on hold until it was ascertained whether the complainant (confirmed as a SHE by RTÉ) had committed a criminal act?

    Did BS resign because his counter claim was not taken seriously?



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭squonk


    Do we believe BS was advised to go AGS during the prices though? I’m sceptical because of what Lynn Borland had to say. Coming out with a challenge to BS to release the facts of the investigation only there peering in the fire. If he had been advised to go to AGS it mages things very easy for Boylan who seems to know so much. A simple “I won’t comment on the investigation but Brian was advised to speak to AGS during the investigation. Why he did not is a question he must answer” is far better than what she came out with. I call BS on this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,786 ✭✭✭Dick phelan


    Whatever their seat numbers will be, I still think about 25 but any chance they ever had of being in government has certainly evaporated. I've never seen a party score so many own goals.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭Field east


    I heard the interview and it was Reveting. He had an answer for everything no matter how away off the mark it was. A .ot of his responses were soooooo unbelievable/offthe wall.
    he was basically saying that there is every every type of a committee/process in place in SF to examine whatever issue comes up within the SF family and if he ‘heard’ that there was some issue being addressed he and other members would not even make discrete enquiries for ‘further details’ unless they are on the appropriate committee - ie there is no need to stick their noses in as the ‘ processes are set up forthat.

    He a.so said that he/other SF members - seemingly is a policy- do not get involved in misinformation , back stabbing, innuendos, etc, etc, etc. as it is a waste of energy, time, etc, etc. they want to concentrate on policy issues all of the time

    PULL THE OTHER ONE MATT!!!!!!!!!!!

    At



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭Field east


    When we do not know the broad/ exact nature of the complaint, the counter claim and maybe who the complainant is , is it not then PURE SPECULATION as to what anyone should do - especially BS- at this point?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,310 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    It was not up to the inquiry to instruct him to go to AGS. As an individual you do not have to make a complaint where you feel that criminality effects you as an individual.

    This is where SF were are being cute. They appointed a barrister from NI to investigate the orginal allegation. As he was not an officer of an Irish court ( which an Irish barrister would be) there is not an onus on him to report a criminal act.

    When BS made the counter complaint the barrister should ( if he was an Irish barrister) have gone to AGS with the complete file. This is why it's a kangaroo court. BS is right SF should have gone to AGS in September and reported the complete details of the case to them.

    The NI barrister would have been aware of the law as UK and Irish law are similar in details like this. However as he is not an officer of an Irish court there was no legal risks by him ignoring the requirements. It was a typical SF sweep it under the carpet tactic.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭squonk


    I’d think so. At this point BS is no longer a party member so you’d have to think they would be free to come out and release details if the allegation and details in full if the extent of the investigation. As there is site criminal aspect potentially they couldn’t sneak about that which is what you’d expect.

    Let’s be honest, if one of your long standing reps exits the tent is a very bad look and it duffer sounds like the processes in place are eight to dawn with Susie like this.

    I think SF think we’re stupid and they can trot out any old guff to cover themselves and we’ll believe it. I hope Michelle O’Neill has gotten the eye test she needs after not recognising the other proven case up North at a function. If BS is spoofing here, come clean with tge details and put the ball in his court. If they can’t, or won’t, that’s a huge problem. .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,783 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    This and the other issues recently have been a mess for Sinn Fein. Why were other people in the party other than Michelle O Neil and Mary Lou McDonald making statements ? You had several members giving their 0.02c worth and not helping because information was coming out which made them look stupid.

    This Brian Stanley stuff looks like it will get nasty going on both his and SF’s statements since the news broke. Neither seems to be backing down, which is not what you want when a GE is imminent, as whatever about the opinion polls you want to be projecting a United party that can govern, and SF look nothing like that atm.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 80 ✭✭TruthorBust


    This abundance of caution phrase is ridiculous



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,783 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It is really simple to explain why Brian Stanley never reported this alleged criminal matter but I will use an abundance of caution in explaining it.

    When you are deep in a cult, you believe that the cult is right, that the cult is true, and the cult will decide the right things to do and do them on your behalf and that there is no need to go outside the cult. That is where Brian Stanley was. He believed that he was innocent, that Sinn Fein was a truly wonderful organisation that would recognise his innocence, that would report his false accuser to the gardai on his behalf.

    It is only when you are kicked out of the cult or leave the cult that you see its true nature. A cult is never interested in the welfare of its members, only in its cause, in protecting itself from criticism. Every individual can be sacrificed for the cause. McGonagle, Ryan, the two press officers, the second paedophile, Stanley, the list goes on of individuals sacrificed for the good name of the cause. MLMD knows she is next, that is why her heart isn't in it. If it isn't this week, it will be the week after the election.

    When you look at everything that has happened over the last few weeks through the lens of Sinn Fein being a cult, it all makes sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    Can you point out where in legislation this rule exists for Barristers in Ireland?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    Do you think that's the same reason no one in FG reported Leo? It's certainly an interesting theory. Interesting that you also think McGononagle was unfairly sacrificed as well. Quite the take on that one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,793 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I am sure you put a lot of work into that but if he thought all that, evidentially and demonstratively he have been better off in the cults of FG FF or the Greens.

    He’d have been defended, protected and if they were forced to sanction him he’d have been quickly back in the fold as a candidate, TD or director of elections.

    If you want evidence of all the above happening in those parties, just ask.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,310 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Its the reason why you cannot admit criminality to a solicitor or a barrister they have a legal onus to report it. However here is the the law society information to the solicitors

    https://www.lawsociety.ie/Solicitors/knowledge-base/Practice-Notes/Reporting-obligation-Criminal-Justice-Act-2011-s19

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,973 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    I’ve never worked for a large employer nor have I been in a disciplinary meeting so asking the following as I don’t know…….

    If a complaint is made against you, does HR then inform you about the procedure and if there is to be a disciplinary panel, are you told who will be on that panel?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,403 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    If the complaint against him is untrue - and I am sure that Stanley has disputed the truth of the complaint - why would he give the story legs? Also if a party was to consider suing for defamation, would spreading the story not undermine a court case on the matter?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,403 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Sorry FB, but this is surely totally disingenuous. You are suggesting that a person accused of something fairly serious (but not illegal) to spread a possibly defamatory statement about themselves?

    I remember the situation the recently deceased Alex Salmond found himself in, obliged to defend himself in court where he was eventually found not guilty. Career destroyed, and name blackened despite being innocent.

    Then you might remember the four rugby players in Belfast, dragged through the courts, innocent of all charges (unsavoury though their practices were) and thrown out of their jobs. Names blackened despite being innocent.

    Are you seriously telling us that you would expect anyone to come out with a statement like the one below:

    "Hi folks,
    I've been accused of nailing a dead cat to SoAndSo's door and putting its entrails through their letterbox. There's no truth at all in those accusations, I'm a nice guy."
    (signed) Joe Bloggs"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,793 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Just speculating . If he was removed from his PAC chair and the party it was going to have ‘legs’ he had to go public first and attempt to smear the whole process. Hence the ‘kangaroo court’ and ‘omerta’ phrases. He knows the weight they would have with the mob.
    It’s called getting your retaliation in first.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,793 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Wasn’t me that said it.
    Boylan can answer for herself.

    Stanley brought this into the public domain by his action and as Boylan said ‘told half a story’.
    He will now be the subject of speculation and no doubt salacious gossip while running a campaign.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    That would mean Brian Stanley and his solicitor and barrister are liable for prosecution under that section, if what BS has alleged comes under schedule 1. That would be a very interesting turn off events.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,074 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Lousie O'Reilly was about to burst into tears at one point on "The Tonight Show" when difficult questions about this issue was put to her. Tbh, I felt sorry for her that she dealt the short straw on this one.


    "It's very clear.." she mentions, while everyone in the studio has no idea what to make of the latest scandal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,403 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    By repeating her words, you appear to agree with her.
    She seems to know a lot about the situation, which might mean that she was involved in some capacity or other.
    Be that as it may, it appears that Stanley was shocked at the report that was issued to him. It's being claimed that he could clear the matter up by putting it in the public domain, but life doesn't work like that. Nobody spreads shít about themselves, it's not a viable defence. Even less so untrue shít invented by others with the intention of harming you.

    SF has done itself no favours with its move to the centre - which in reality is a move to the right.
    A lot of its traditional supporters were genuinely shocked at its reaction to events in Gaza last year. If it cannot retain its traditional supporters and would-be fellow travellers, it may as well give up the ghost, and losing so many elected members in such a short time should be a serious wake-up call to those running the party, whether elected representatives, paid staff or those who have moved out of the spotlight and onto the sidelines.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭pureza


    what we do know is you are all for the ‘they said’ side not the ‘he said’

    Very trusting I must say

    Hero to zero for you in 24 hours because they said

    ‘They said’ means papal infallibility

    It’s been a long time since you’ve even tried to be taken seriously around here hasn’t it

    Is there no sense at all of self awareness with you for that type of posting looking like it’s from the employ of SF ?

    Of course if it is,no one would expect any reaction other than the usual again



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,973 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    I’ll rephrase my question as nobody has answered 😂

    If you are told by official channels that you have to attend a disciplinary meeting, are you told who the panel you will be in front of are? ie: Mr X, Ms Y & Barrister Z.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,310 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    No as I explained earlier an individual is under no onus to make a complaint where the criminal act effect themselves. There legal team is under no onus to report the criminal activity as it effects there client and the client has no interest in reporting it.

    However SF have no such get out of jail clause. They have admitted that what BS is supposed to have done was not of a criminal nature. However they have admitted that the complaint he made against the individual was of a criminal nature. They continued a quasi legal process after that. The barrister involved if he was working in the Irish legal system would have a case to answer. SF used a NI barrister to prevent having to report any criminal activity.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,793 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I don’t know or cannot know who is right and who is wrong re the complaint. I can only look at what is being said and how it is said.
    What Stanley has done though strikes me as an attempt to smear the process from the get go.
    I am still not sure why anyone is confused about the process, it seems a straight forward process on foot of a complaint



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,973 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    Louise O’Reilly and Matt Carthy have both stated on live tv tonight that they do not know what the complaint is about.

    So, how did Lynn Boylan know?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,467 ✭✭✭nc6000


    Matt Carthy isn't doing much better on RTE now with Katie Hannon. It's a shambles of a party, he looks very unhappy.



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