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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,085 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Au contraire, this government has supported SMEs through the worst economic upheaval in modern times, with the highest level of financial support of any EU state.

    The government is not, however, a shareholder in your business. If the business is not viable, its not viable, due to any or all of; market conditions, ill-formed ideas, or bad management. Not because the government aren't shoring you up with enough shovels full of cash.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,780 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Why can't you read posts properly? I specifically referred to taking action on different issues. Did you miss this bit -which refers to the internal inquiry involving Stanley?

    Similarly with people who step out of line and break rules. Takes an assured leader to take the public hit and take action.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Unfortunately across so much of the modern left today what is labelled far right has become so broad as to be meaningless.

    It often just seems to be a way to preach to everyone about how sinful everyone else is.

    That has also crept in to FG over the last 10 years as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,484 ✭✭✭pureza




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,780 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I would agree with this generally.
    I said yesterday it looked to me that SF had accepted that they would not feature in the next power play and had set course on defining more clearly what they are offering the electorate for good or bad. That remains to be seen.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,780 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I don't. Nor said he did. We know a 'complaint' was made. If a complaint is made you don't ignore it, if you are a strong leader you launch an inquiry without fear or favour. Seems to me that happened.

    SF to release a full statement later this afternoon. So we should have some more transparency.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,484 ✭✭✭pureza


    But of course you will be provisionally accepting it,whatever it is 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,780 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I make no bones about it Pureza, I fully support them getting rid of those who voice opinions that are not in line with SF policy or direction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,779 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    The problem for them is that they were trying to be a party for everyone : a left wing, strongly working class party but also a centre left party who would appeal to the middle classes. Many of their traditional working class urban voters would not be comfortable with some of their more 'liberal' policies.

    It's a near impossible square to circle. They can't be a left wing, socialist party and yet adopt right wing or even 'far right' policies on immigration and other issues to appeal to their working class base. It's difficult to imagine what direction they will end up going in (the right wing one would surely be career suicide for any Irish political party though….this is not the UK or the US).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Arguably their position on migration is radical right, unfettered free market.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,779 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    The elephant in the room is that many of their traditional, working class urban voters are probably quite right wing in their views (perhaps not fully realising that they have been voting for a left wing party all along…..this was always going to become a problem once issues like immigration and asylum seekers came to the fore).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,780 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I think they certainly tried to broaden their appeal but confused rather than enhanced the message and that is where things went south with opinions voicing support rather than with actual votes. Remains to be seen how badly that actual vote in a GE is affected.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,846 ✭✭✭jd


    Mythen? Or Ó Súilleabháin in Wexford/Wicklow?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,074 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    You defended the men who abused Maria Cahill and her treatment for years on this website.

    Maria Cahill was a child when she was abused.

    You also defended how SF handled that particular kangaroo court, as you always do when it comes to anything SF.

    Every party has concerns around the rules in regards immigration, but since we are signed up to International Treaties and a member of the EU, we are somewhat curtailed in many ways. SF have no real answer except to try and be more pure than anyone else.

    This explains the losing streak they are on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,779 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    It was always going to be a huge challenge. Many of their traditional urban voters in working class areas could hardly be called be called 'left wing' at all : genuine left wing voters would often go for PBP, the Soc Dems and Labour instead.

    So we've ended up with the strange dichotomy of a left wing party receiving many of its votes from people who are arguably 'right wing'…..but they also have a real left wing element too i.e. the pro-Palestine section. This inevitably is posing major problems for SF (not to mention all the internal machinations).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,780 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I did not defend the sexual abuse of Mairia Cahill…not once. That's a complete out and out scurrilous lie.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    That's a problem for left wing parties across the world today. They have adopted a policy on migration similar to Reaganism, but label it solidarity, it is still Reaganism.

    The left is effectively dead in most of Europe and relying on a small middle class cohort to keep going. The same is happening here.

    It's not a problem confined to SF, labour are a real small niche party, so are PbP, the Soc Dems are another middle class niche whatever chance of growth they have is going to be damaged by a real purist, righteous stance. The same thing doing such damage to SF.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,780 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I never really bought into the idea that we have a distinct left and right here in the main political parties. They all accommodate the left and right to some degree.
    As SF have most recently made the move to being a party like that, they have shed putative support. As I said, remains to be seen how much of their actual GE support they will lose.
    The 'internal machinations' will hurt, but it will be interesting to see what emerges.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You told us repeatedly that you did not believe her. You attacked her motives, you defended the actions of Sinn Fein in facilitating her suffering.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The Stanley and Ryan incidents are just symptoms of the disease at the heart of rotten Sinn Fein. This is far worse:

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/sinn-fein-member-who-resigned-over-inappropriate-texts-to-teenager-is-heavily-involved-in-gaa/a1084535988.html

    "Sinn Féin is refusing to say if it informed the GAA that it suspended its former member after receiving a complaint about the text messages."

    "Since leaving Sinn Féin, the ­individual has remained involved in the GAA, as a senior member of a club with underage teams.

    The party’s press office would not respond to questions seeking to establish what, if any, action the party took after the former member left and continued to work with the GAA."

    "McDonald was aware the member was suspended in September last year. However, she has interacted with the former member as recently as this summer."

    "Yesterday, Sinn Féin refused to ­answer any questions about the member or Ms McDonald’s actions since becoming aware of his suspension."

    If this report is true, MLMD must resign. She had a chance to come clean last week about everything in her party, and yet, chose to conceal again, probably hoping once again that nobody would hear about it. She is a disgrace, not fit for politics.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,780 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I said I believed her when she said she was abused and no way did I defend that abuse as suggested.

    I did not believe her when she said she was not helped by SF as there is a paper record of her being helped and advised by some of the SF people accused. She claimed to have a 'forensic memory' of the events but forgot to say she was herself against going to the police, actually asked the IRA to help and was anti the GFA and joined the RNU.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Sinn Fein were complicit in her abuse, you have defended that.

    You refuse to acknowledge in any way that Sinn Fein have a horrendous record when it comes to child abuse. Even this week MLMD "forgot" about the other paedophile and went after others. What a rotten horrible political party.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/editorial/editorial-another-bad-week-for-sinn-fein/a925487720.html

    This editorial should be required reading for anyone thinking of voting Sinn Fein. Of course, the usual defenders will be on here in numbers playing it down but it makes for chilling reading.

    "But it does suggest the party has lingering issues when it comes to protecting children from unwanted attention in its ranks.

    Who’s to say what other skeletons may be hiding in plain sight?

    The reason Sinn Féin continues to have these problems is because it is not a normal political party. It’s the public face of a movement that for decades suppressed its humanity in the name of an ideological cause, and it has not always been able to find that humanity since."

    A lot of us on here have been saying this bit in bold for a very long time. Sinn Fein simply is not a normal political party.

    "Remind Sinn Féin supporters of this uncomfortable truth and they will robotically cite scandals involving members of other parties."

    "Of course, every tree has some tangled, rotten roots. No other party seems to give rise to so many of them, however, and when scandals do surface, few in senior positions of authority in those parties would consistently inflame public hostility by hurriedly brushing them under the carpet."

    We see this behaviour repeatedly on here, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. It is beyond tiresome, beyond normal behaviour.

    "Sinn Féin’s instinct is still to turn on those holding it to account, rather than holding to account those who have shamed it further. Until that culture changes, there is no reason to grant it the benefit of the doubt."

    I have talked repeatedly of the rotten culture at the heart of Sinn Fein and the world is waking up to that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,904 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 540 ✭✭✭myfreespirit


    Where is the lie?

    The post you refer to does not contain the lie you claim.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,887 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Sums up SF response to the various recent issues - when Stanley was a SF TD it didn’t warrant going to the Gardai; but as soon as he leaves the party they report it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭spillit67


    More great leadership from Mary Lou, delaying a criminal investigation so they can have their own first



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    Tbf, the lad your quoting really doesn't seem like the sharpest knife in the drawer.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭mikep




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