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Are cycle lanes similar to "Must turn here" traffic signs?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,766 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Whatevering about legal ins and outs is precisely why some are even arguing about this, it's as clear as day that a cyclist going straight has priority over anyone turning left there, they are changing lane, not the cyclist.

    All it screams is that a lot of people still need to be educated on how to use the roads here, instead of advocating that cyclists shouldn't do what they're legally entitled to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,438 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    How does a dash line indicating a lane, means that there is no lane? You've contradicted yourself. It either exists or it doesn't.

    Just like on a road marking, a dashed line is still lanes (motorway lanes are dashed lines, are not lanes too?). A dash line means you can cross, provided it is safe to do so, ie it is clear. In this case the lane turns, so the bike is crossing the line, so must give way. If the bike lane split and went ahead, then it's the car crossing it, and should give way.

    Where are you getting it that bikes going straight have priority at all times? Cars should be aware when passing bikes, that they could be going straight, at any junction.
    But that’s very different to overriding lane markings or other priority.

    If the road had 3 lanes, 2 turning abd straight. You still think a bike on the inside gets priority over all turning?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,766 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Cycle lane markings are different to road ones, they don't mean the same thing. You can't park on a solid line cycle lane but you can park all you like on a dashed one, because it's not a lane. It's basically paint on a road.

    The very fact that you're questioning cyclists having priority going straight at all times suggests that you in addition to the above haven't educated yourself on the ROTR for a very long time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,282 ✭✭✭kirving


    The cylce lane color and paint extending around the corner do more harm than good in that situation.

    Rightly or wrongly, it's reasonable that a driver could be momentarily confused by a cyclist exiting the cycle lane, to go straight, from the left side of the left turn only lane.

    The best course of action, until the junction is corrected, is to move out into the main lane.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,947 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    It's a terrible design, and while I'm interested in an academic sort of way what the legal situation is, my experience is that you have to make it clear by your "road language" (not sure what the driving/cycling equivalent of body language is) that you're going straight on. People mae a lot of assumptions: especially when the cycle track implies that you're turning left.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,947 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I'm not sure that cycle tracks are officially "lanes" a lot of the time anyway.

    Many of the on-roadway cycle tracks are just a part of what was previously a standard-width traffic lane. So, if such a cycle track IS a separate lane, the car lane immediately to its right is often narrower than a car (or just about the same width), and I presume the car lane breaches road-engineering standards. But we just let people in cars occupy what was the original lane, and say the cycle track is there to "remind" drivers that cyclists use the road. So it's not a traffic lane; it's more like an elaborate sharrow

    Post edited by tomasrojo on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,766 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Exactly, the road between the old Tuning Fork pub and the Yellow House in Rathfarnham is a perfect example of what a dashed cycle lane means. The road isn't wide enough to not drive in the dashed cycle 'lane'. It is purely marked on the road to remind drivers that it is a shared space.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,438 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    By crossing the line he is leaving the cycle lane and will be fully on the road. Not sure how parking on a bike lane is relevant.

    I asked you to point to it on the rules of the road. You haven’t been able to. That suggests of the two of us, you’ve misunderstood some part, because I’m aware of what it actually says. It’s a very general comment.

    You also ignored the question on multiple lanes turning. Would cyclist magic priority apply there too?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,947 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Well, legally you can't park "all you like" on a cycle lane bordered with a dashed white line (as far as I recall)

     A prohibition on the parking of a vehicle imposed by article 36 (2) (m) shall not apply to a vehicle parked in a cycle track, on the right hand edge of which traffic sign number RRM 023 has been provided, while goods are being loaded in or on to it or unloaded from it for a period not exceeding thirty minutes from the commencement of such parking.

    (274/1998)

    Legally. In practice on the other hand, you can park all you like. But in practice, you can't safely go straight on in the scenario in this thread, whatever about the legal situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,766 ✭✭✭standardg60


    You didn't ask me anything about pointing to the ROTR. You're still referring to a cycle lane, it's not a lane. Your imagining up of a scenario is not worth responding to.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,947 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    My recollection, now I think about it, is that a cycle track has to have one of the three or so blue signs with the bicycle on it, and be bordered by a continuous white line, or a broken white line. Having just the line or even coloured tarmac doesn't make it a cycle track. I think the "sharrow"-style lanes I mentioned don't usually have the blue sign.

    Anyway I suspect we've given this subject more thought at this stage than whoever designed this junction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,438 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    What are you talking about. I asked you (twice now) where you were getting it from.

    Where are you getting it that bikes going straight have priority at all times? 

    That swiggly line at the end, that means it was a question. I wasn’t going constrain you to a particular source. But the fact you can’t produce any says enough.

    Don’t worry about answering the other scenario. We both know why you have got one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,438 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    A lot of the time that area just areas on the side of the pre-existing lane. But that clearly not the case here, which is what we're talking about. In the case there's road lanes in both directions, the cycle was separated by a kerb, and join the the road surface with no give in the road lane width or spec.
    The dash line marks the edge of the road lane, as much as the cycle lane.

    The markings could definitely be improved to provide the intentions more clearly one way or the other.

    For what its worth, the RotR refer to the same. And I'll add "all you like" to things a certain poster has pulled from thin air

    A driver may park in a non-mandatory cycle track for up to 30 minutes, but only if they are loading or unloading their vehicle and there is no alternative parking available.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Just to be clear, the road signage there allows cyclists in the bus lane for the whole duration of the section of road. On the other hand, the cycle track varies from a cycle track, to a shared space, to nothing at all.

    For this who want to be letter of the law about it, stick to the bus lane for the entire route.

    For those motorists and cyclists in the real world, merge when safe to do so and don't pull across someone in the lane beside you, whether or not you believe it is a lane or where it entitles you to go is not as important as not being a d1ck.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,766 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Point me to anywhere where they don't, you're the one who stated it wasn't universal, that is what I initially replied to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 997 ✭✭✭tommythecat


    I would stick your right arm out coming up to the junction. This will alert the driver that you are going to not turn left and at the very least will draw their attention to you.

    4kwp South East facing PV System. 5.3kwh Weco battery. South Dublin City.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,438 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    You made the claim that it’s a universal priority. The onus is on you to back that up. If that law exists should be easy to point to it, right.

    It’s not possible for any one to prove a negative. I can’t point to where the law doesn’t exist.
    (unlike your BS parking claim, I could prove you wrong as that law exists).

    With a bit of sense, there’s load of situations where going straight won’t have priority.
    eg: On a green filter arrow only when straight ahead is red. Inside a turn only lane, inside dual turning lanes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 165 ✭✭justforgroups


    They have the money to build new cycle lanes in places that no one has asked for and no one uses, but not where cyclists need 😣

    "If you need to contact SDCC about this enquiry please quote the reference CC…….

    Thank you very much for your email.

    Currently this junction is not on the scheduled programme of works.

    This will be highlighted to the Senior Engineer in Active Travel, so when funding is available then something can be done.

    Regards

    Stephen Cullen

    Exec Engineer

    SDCC"



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