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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,714 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    I wouldnt call it the ugly truth. The fact is SF have been sliding in the polls for months and the govt, especially FG since Harris took over, have been rising.

    Logically, we would expect a GE as soon as possible, especially now the budget has been delivered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,887 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Anyone with even half a brain can see the very big difference between a job reference which covers up that the person left a previous job due to, at the time, unresolved allegations of child sexual abuse and a general reference to past character where the person's wrongdoings are on the public record.

    Do you have any evidence of any of the previously mentioned court references having lied about and covered up child sex abuse? Seems to be one hell of a differenciating factor that you are intent on ignoring.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,823 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    yes it is, again, politics has always been this way, again, such decisions are partly based on the positioning of the opposition in relation to government entities, this is how politics works!

    yes sf are sliding, and sliding fast, and ffg are rising, so therefore…..

    an element of governance is about power play, and it makes complete sense for ffg to pull the plug now, due to the current dynamics, they know this, cause they know how politics works!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,789 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You are by writing a reference seeking a benefit for the person you are writing it for.

    What the SF reference writers did was wrong and the inconvenient truth for handwavers such as you is that writing a reference for a 'convicted abuser' is also wholly wrong and rightly a controversial thing to do. Why did the CC apologise (the victims family didn't accept it and wanted him sanctioned) if it wasn't?

    *Pay attention to 'also' there. Yourself and blanch in pathetic harmony on trying to dilute and again indulging your exceptionalism.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,887 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    So you've no evidence whatsoever that anyone other than the two SF officials who gave the references lied about past behaviour and intentionally covered up for a suspected child abuser - but you'll try and paint false equivalences about other cases to try and deflect from yet another SF scandal.

    And that's before we get to:

    • the HR Director of Sinn Fein (who also ran the disciplinary process involing McMonagle) knowing about since August 2023 but nothing being done until the press got wind of it - and this person is still a member of SF
    • Conor Murphy trying to blame the charity for Sinn Fein's failings
    • Michelle O'Neill lying and claiming she didn't meet anyone from BHF - only to have to correct the record when confronted with photographs
    • Michelle O'Neill continuing to pretend she didn't see McMonagle standing 3 metres straight in front of her


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,064 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Is there any single political party in the country not associated with a scandal? Doubt it very much



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,789 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    no evidence

    ??
    I'm not on trial here.

    There are only 'false equivalences' if you try and twist and make exceptions for your politicians.

    *There is nothing unusual about somebody not doing their job properly…in fact that is why most messes begin.

    *Conor Murphy like me and I'm sure many others, assumed that vetting of all employees through AccessNI and DBS would be the norm. Turns out it isn't, which is a concern, if you are actually concerned about child safety? Murphy should have checked before, that I will agree with.
    *I can understand how somebody's presence would not register when you are focused on something else. She wasn't focused on McMonagle as she would be now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Christ almighty, that is some amount of lies that you are posting.

    Mairia Cahill did put her alleged abuser into a court, the PSNI had to apologise to her for the way the case was handled. Such a simple fact for you to get wrong.

    You are so enmeshed in Sinn Fein propaganda that you would believe any sh!te they come out with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Some people are so blinded by devotion at the altar of Sinn Fein that they really can't see the difference.

    It is plain and obvious to everyone else that there is a very very big difference. Sinn Fein were facilitating a paedophile getting access to children. There are zero examples of other political parties doing anything as bad as that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,823 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    people will react to this fact at the ballot boxes, sf are goosed



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I happen to agree. I also hope that Harris calls MLMDs bluff and has a wide debate. The throwing of mud by MLMD over events of two decades ago that are venial sins compared to the mortal sins in recent weeks of Sinn Fein will backfire spectacularly on her.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,823 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ah shes done, she ll be out after the ge, no way back now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,789 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady



    And she has the option to take civil proceedings but never has.

    Her priority was to go after SF and Adams, which is fine and she is fully entitled to do that, but she can't accuse and allege without expecting to be be challenged.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭pureza




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    By that logic, everything that she has said about Gerry Adams is true because he has never filed civil proceedings against her. Everything that Aine Adams has said about Gerry is also true because he hasn't sued her either. And finally, everything that the McConville family have said about him is true because he hasn't sued them either.

    That is a long list of things that you will now have to accept are true about Gerry Adams because he hasn't sued. That is your logic, not mine.

    Oh wait, it is the great Gerry, he is above all that. If Gerry or you or anyone else want to challenge Mairia Cahill's version of events, sue her, it's all in her book.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,714 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Yes. It's hardly the ugly truth though. Thats how we would expect politicians to operate.

    Sounds like you are saying FFG should wait until SF are on the rise and then call a GE.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,789 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    . And by your logic everything said about Cahill is also true then.

    What we can say is that her alleged abuser walks free and it isn’t a priority to do anything about that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,823 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    …and it sounds like you re not admitting that ffg are normal political parties, engaging in normal political party behavior of waiting, attempting to control governance, in order to minimise their exposure to the risks of dissolving government, and going to the ballot boxes, i.e. exactly what they are doing right now!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It is quite unbelievable.

    A poster introduces the concept that because Mairia Cahill hasn't sued her abuser, the story isn't true, and then when you apply HIS logic to Gerry Adams, the retort is that I must then believe all that is said about Mairia Cahill must be true.

    He just didn't get that it was HIS logic, not mine, that I was applying!!!! The double standards belong to his posting.

    It is extremely strange. I am not justifying my view by the absence of court cases, he tried to do that and it fell flat on its face, and he doesn't even get that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,714 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Yes. They are following normal political protocol...nothing to see here.

    It would only be a surprise if they were doing anything else.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,823 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    yes, we call this democracy, and its playing out in front of us, its very powerful, incredible to watch the levels of control that established entities and parties go to, in order to maintain democracy, including in the confidence and supply, helping to maintain this level of control, i.e. helping in preventing the creation of alternatives, democracy!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2024/1009/1474430-ireland-politics/

    MLMD is still at it.

    "In a statement, Sinn Féin said: "If the Government wants a debate on child protection we welcome that. We will set out how Sinn Féin has acted decisively and held people to account when guilty of gross misconduct.

    "The Taoiseach and Tánaiste will also need to set out what sanctions they applied when senior members of their parties wrote references for child abusers and sex offenders."

    No ownership of the issue at all, no humility, no concern for victims, just lashing out at others around her. Undignified, lacking in leadership and downplaying what her party did. I really hope that, unlike her supporters on her, she actually understands the difference in what people have done, and how bad the actions of her party members were in comparison to everyone else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,714 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    People have the right to vote for whomever they like. Its up to the people to vote in a govt. Nobody else.

    If most people want to see a FFG govt returned, then that is democracy in action.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,789 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    This is just more of the ‘we will not allow you speak unless you say what we want you to say’.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭standardg60


    The thing they don't seem to realise is that if the two press lads had given character references for mcmonagle at his sentencing instead they wouldn't be guilty of any gross misconduct. Indeed we'd probably have SF and our resident poster defending their right to do so.

    Knowledge is learning something, wisdom is learning from it, intelligence thought of it first.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,552 ✭✭✭JVince


    Do you REALLY think the senior HR member of the party was told about these official professional references and who was the main person involved in the disciplinary process, decided NOT to bring it to the attention of the hierarchy?

    Seriously?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,789 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Now we are in the realms of the probable in an attempt to make reference writing for people you know are guilty of abuse something honourable.
    It's possible to forgive the CC as he apologised but I would side with the victims family on that, but it's impossible to forgive the arrogance of the FGer who defended his reference letter

    Did the Business Committee in the Dáil set a date today, anyone ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,789 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭standardg60


    I would defend the right of anyone to give a character reference in court no matter how nauseating, reprehensible, or dishonourable that might be to someone else. The courts themselves defend the right for them to be given. Are you against this right and think people who give them should be sanctioned or disciplined in any way? Yes or no?

    Knowledge is learning something, wisdom is learning from it, intelligence thought of it first.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,789 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I most certainly do for political reps.
    Explain why the CC apologised if it is such an inalienable right?

    What does it say to a victim if an elected politician tacitly says your abuser should not serve their full sentence? Are we not concerned about victims just because it’s a FFer or FGer in the frame?

    It’s an appalling thing to do and it’s wrong even if a Shinner does it.



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