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Deemed export on a Smart Meter

  • 09-10-2024 10:58AM
    #1
    viewofthehill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 ✭


    Don't know if this has been discussed before but I noticed something in my latest bill from EI. My export figures are nearly 50 kWh below what I actually exported. I queried this with EI and they have come back with the attached response:

    image.png

    ESB Networks appear to take a reading daily and if they can't take that reading they replace it with a deemed amount and then use the daily amounts to calculate the export. On my ESB Networks account I can download my Daily Snapshot of total usage and export data (where applicable) in actual kWh which gives an end of day reading for cumulative import and export. I've had a number of days during the year when ESB Networks have replaced actual with deemed export. This doesn't make sense as according to the response this only happens where they can't read the meter yet they can produce a HDF file for the same time period with half hour readings which requires, wait for it, reading the smart meter 🤦.

    Has anyone seen this before and followed up with either the supplier or ESB Networks?



Comments

  • #2
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058373505/deemed-export-on-a-smart-meter

    Out of curiosity Do you have the days where they deemed it?

    And also is it your inverter that you have got the export amount from or the smart meter?

    Last edit 😂

    are you on a smart plan or standard plan?



  • #3
    viewofthehill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 ✭viewofthehill


    image.png

    This is what was sent on from EI

    image.png

    My Daily Snapshot of total usage downloaded from ESB Networks

    hdf.xlsx

    HDF extract for those dates. In the HDF extract I am missing values from 18:00 on the 11th until 13:00 on the 12th. We had a power outage. These are also missing from my solar logging. Looking back further I got deemed export on the 24/4 and I have a full suite of readings in the HDF file (48 import and 48 export).

    HDF2.xlsx

    The three sources of data above were from EI and ESB Networks. I normally read my meter when the bill comes in as the EI bill doesn't give a current and previous read for export like it does with import. All it gives is an export amount.

    Plan is a standard day night plan.

    There doesn't appear to have been any issue reading the meter for the imported readings on those days….



  • #4
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,141 ✭✭✭✭10-10-20


    And considering your username on here, are you remote, in a valley, isolated, etc.. that would help understand what's happening.



  • #5
    viewofthehill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 ✭viewofthehill


    Not remote or isolated, Can see a Hill in the distance about 2-3 miles away. The meter seems to be reporting without issue. There are some missed readings but they can be traced back to outages - we get outages (39 houses) where the power is gone for 1-2 hours because something has tripped somewhere and it takes ESB networks some time to reset.



  • #6
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Has every deemed incident paired up with an outage?

    It's interesting that electric Ireland get a daily export value. They only get the meter import reads though.(that you can see on the ESBN website now too)



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  • #7
    Buffman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,431 ✭✭✭Buffman


    If it was the other way around and you owed them for 50kWh, I guarantee it wouldn't be left at 'deemed' and forgotten about. Any import 'estimate' would be corrected at the next actual reading, I don't see why they can't/won't do the same for export.

    As they've admitted in that mail that you've been estimated/deemed a few times, and you can prove you were underpaid, have you sent in all your actual data and requested them to adjust and pay you for the actual?

    If they don't/won't and deny your complaint, you should get onto CRU directly with a complaint.

    The below is a general 'signature' and not part of any post:

    FYI, if you move to a 'smart' meter electricity plan, you CAN'T move back to a non-smart plan.

    You don't have to take a 'smart' meter if you don't want one, opt-out is available.

    Buy drinks in 3L or bigger plastic bottles or glass bottles or cartons to avoid the DRS fee.

    Public transport user? If you're sick of phantom ghost services on the 'official' RTI sources, check bustimes.org for actual 'real' RTI, if it's on their map it actually exists.



  • #8
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,567 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    This is possibly a dumb question, but as long as the meter reports data eventually then it should be fine because the readings are cumulative?

    As in if your meter is offline 1 day and you export 10kWh, but ESB reports 0kWh because they received no data

    The next day is the same, you export 10kWh but the meter comes back online. In this case the meter reports 20kWh total export so it's still correct overall

    I'm not sure if the meter records the 30 mins data internally, but it makes sense that it'll have some kind of buffer to prevent data loss

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • #9
    viewofthehill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 ✭viewofthehill


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122701018#Comment_122701018

    Below is a table of when I have less than 48 readings for a day since January. 4 of the 5 instances of Deemed export have less than the 48 readings with 24th April being the exception. I have also included the other times where there is less than 48 readings in the day. What's interesting about these is that they are all below the deemed export level. Oct 2 was recent so waiting to see if the HDF file fills in for that going forward. The 5th October is missing from the file sent to me by EI but my HDF file shows 47 of 48 readings.

    Looking at this small sample it would appear that ESB Networks are reporting the actual value in the event of read errors when the export amount is less than deemed export and as deemed export when the actual value is greater. I would have thought that there would be one source of data within ESB Networks but this would seem to suggest that isn't the case.

    image.png

    Has anyone else looked at their data and seen similar occurrence. Again it would help if the suppliers/ESB Networks provided a current and previous meter reading to allow the consumer to check similar to the import meter.



  • #10
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Most of us havent seen what you got from EI.

    I am now on a smart plan so my provider (energia) now gets the half hour for both import and export, Doing a bit of a comparsion between mine, and the ESBN hdf is currently spot on.

    My export from Flogas (on an unactivated DN SM) was close enough to my esbn HDF.



  • #11
    viewofthehill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 ✭viewofthehill


    Just an update on this, I have been looking at the response from Electric Ireland and found this on the ESB Networks site

    image.png

    While the wording is similar, it would appear that this implies that they were unable to read the meter over a period of 8 days rather than the the EI response of they were unable to read the meter. I'm following up with EI.

    Edit: This is odd because I received a bill on the 4th October for consumption up to the 1st October and the deemed export happened on the 11/12 August so there was plenty of time for it to be rectified



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