Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

1233234236238239392

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    What protocols? MLMD told us a few years ago about these amazing protocols but they have never seen the light of day.

    If you are so sure that the protocols have been broken, you will produce them and show the relevant paragraphs. I believe they were never put in place and that MLMD lied.

    When will Conor Murphy and Michelle O'Neill be sanctioned for telling lies about the BHF?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.irishnews.com/news/politics/michelle-oneill-says-shes-yet-to-discuss-mcmonagle-controversy-with-deputy-first-minister-BNP2MJK4SRAQNCTPH6YGTL6FJI/

    The lies from Michelle O'Neill continue.

    "In the assembly, Ms O’Neill asked that the record of last Wednesday’s Executive Office committee meeting be “corrected” after footage emerged of her talking to British Heart Foundation chief executive Fearghal McKinney in Stormont’s Great Hall last February."

    She only admitted that because more footage emerged after she lied about not speaking to anyone from the BHF.

    "Answering a series of urgent questions from MLAs, Ms O’Neill said she accepted that footage from February 2023 in Stormont’s Great Hall showing her in proximity to McMonagle “from that angle... looks perhaps that I should have seen him”. 

    Does anyone believe her? Her credibility is in tatters. Wouldn't be surprised to see a joint Alliance/UUP/DUP/SDLP motion of no-confidence in her later this week. It would only take evidence of one more lie to justify it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭pureza


    What protocols? Does anyone at the level of these 2 idividuals have the authority to issue references,yes or no ?

    What sort of hire process is in place in SF that makes it possible to have people at higher echelons in the party facilitate child abuse by giving someone known to be a suspected child abuser at the time a hand into a job that might put them in contact with children ?

    Has any other party had such an appalling child abuse scandal like this ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Again, as Alex Kane remarked no political party anywhere will want to push that one too far as it's a huge grey area everywhere with family members/friends and the faithful in employment. Again if a party has broken rules they should be sanctioned by the equivalent of SIPO. I suspect that the relevant body is also hampered from doing their job as it obviously is here.

    I can only react to what is on the public record and what politicians say. The leader of SF has admitted here that her parties safeguarding and child protection protocols have failed. That is robust and breve leadership. Stand up and take responsibility and do something about it.
    You 'believe' a lot of stuff but of course have no back up for a lot of your exceptionalist kneejerk beliefs.
    No political party can fully guard against solo runs or wrongdoing within their ranks, they should however take immediate action and suspend not circle the wagons to protect those who have done wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The two individuals operated outside their 'authority'.

    The position of 'Press Officer' is not a regulated position.

    Even if the SF leadership had sanctioned the references, this man being under investigation would NOT have raised red flags in the system as a whole.
    So this could happen again. Anyone wishing to 'facilitate an abuser' could get somebody into a job involving children.
    That requires an honest and robust review of safeguarding too as the Alliance MLA was pointing out.

    But as usual child protection and victims are not the real concern, it's get a head or get Gerry all over again.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You keep saying that the protocols have failed, yet nobody has ever produced any evidence that the protocols ever existed. Yes, MLMD told us a few years ago about these brilliant protocols and how what happened to Mairia Cahill and Paudie McGahon wouldn't happen again, but nobody has ever seen these brilliant protocols and it's happened again.

    MLMD needs to stand up and take responsibility for the failures, which means handing in her resignation notice. Albert Reynolds took responsibility for failures on his watch in relation to child protection, MLMD needs to do the same.

    The clear evidence from the Liam Adams, Mairia Cahill, Seamus Marley and McGonagle cases is there isn't solo runs, there is a pattern, a pattern of hiding child abuse, of covering it up, of pretending it doesn't happen. MLMD was supposed to clean it up, she has failed, she has to go.

    I asked you already, is MLMD going to suspend Conor Murphy and Michelle O'Neill for trying to pass the buck and blame the BHF for the failings of SF? You keep telling us that they should take immediate action and suspend wrongdoers, but that isn't happening.

    And don't forget to produce the brilliant protocols.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Who says they operated outside their "authority"? There is no evidence that anything they did departed from normal Sinn Fein protocols.

    Passing the buck doesn't work. I have explained the vetting process to you already. Vetting is only legal where the job involves regular and sustained contact with children. Where there is occasional contact, in an unregulated position, the onus is on the employer to get suitable references from the previous employer. You are continuing to blame the BHF and the system for the failures of Sinn Fein.

    What you are saying is that Sinn Fein did something wrong, but because the system wasn't set up to catch them out, it's the system's fault. You sound like a criminal in a Scooby Doo cartoon blaming the meddling kids.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Albert Reynolds took responsibility for failures on his watch in relation to child protection

    Utter nonsense, Reynolds resigned because the Labour party walked out, he tried to save his government to STAY ON as leader.

    Please stop re-inventing history.

    NOBODY in the SF leadership HID the child abuse of McMonagle. As soon as an investigation began he was suspended from the party.

    Again you try to re-invent what happened.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I wouldn't be reposting that rubbish. It is defamatory.

    It is the sort of denial we see on here from the usual SF supporting posters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Albert Reynold's government mishandled a child abuse case leaving children at risk. He resigned.

    MLMD's party mishandled a child abuse case leaving children at risk. She is trying to brazen it out.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭pureza


    I never mentioned Gerry

    Are you saying these 2 individuals at the time did not have the right to issue references for people,yes or no?

    Your assertion that I don't care about child abuse is reprehensible by the way



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 692 ✭✭✭rdwight


    Not to mention that he seems to have got the families involved in SF abuse cases mixed up. Understandable enoough I suppose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,066 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    You people are sick in the head if that's what you think of me

    I'll try this again for your benefit one more time. In the same fashion that Liam Adams is Gerry Adams brother, Brian Cowen and Barry Cowen are also brothers. Also Simon and Rory Coveney are brothers

    Just to make it crystal clear to the pair of you, what I am saying is The actions of one brother does not require the expulsion of the other.

    The suggestion that I condone child abuse is not one I will take lightly if it happens again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You are a complete bluffer who will deceive and alter and people should be aware of that.

    Spring led his ministers out of a cabinet meeting to consider the position of the Labour Party. The coalition appeared to be finished, but Reynolds still held out for the chance to patch things up. Reynolds went before the Dáil and said that if he had known "then" what he "knew now" about the incompetent handling of the case by the AG's office, he would not have appointed Whelehan to the judicial post.

    However, Reynolds was damaged politically, appearing more interested in holding on to power than in the integrity of government actions. Spring decided he could not go back into government with Reynolds, and led the Labour Party out of the coalition on 16 November 1994.

    It was apparent that Reynolds no longer had enough support to govern, so he resigned as Taoiseach on 17 November 1994.[20]

    On 19 November 1994, Reynolds resigned as party leader, and the Minister for Finance Bertie Ahern was unanimously elected the sixth leader of Fianna Fáil.

    Albert Reynolds - Wikipedia



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 692 ✭✭✭rdwight


    I always wondered how the 70-odd Sinn Fein members who were in Magennis' bar the night Robert McCartney was murdered managed not to see anything (so they claimed). There seems to be a persistent strain of myopia in the party.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I didn't say you did. I was referencing what some of the motivations were around this.

    When it came to light that 2 people had written these references an inquiry was launched and they resigned.

    You have to presume that it was an unauthorised action.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Gerry Adams has nothing to do with the recent allegations. But as you ask about brothers…..

    Gerry Adams lied about his knowledge of his brothers' actions.

    Gerry Adams employed his brother as his election agent after he knew he had abused his daughter.

    Gerry Adams facilitated his brother getting a job with children after he knew what he had done.

    If you still want to compare the horrible Adams brothers with the Cowens or Coveneys, you will definitely be trivialising child sexual abuse, which is what you were actually accused of, rather than the way you twisted it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    So you have confirmed that Albert Reynolds resigned over the handling of a child sex abuse case. That he had to be forced to go is no different to the way that MLMD will have to be pressurised.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Reynolds did not resign over that and you know it. He resigned after trying to keep his government together because Labour pulled the plug.

    Impossible to get you to accept the truth never mind telling it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Lots of excuses from MLMD on Newstalk, but she was very shaky and nervous, as if she was worrying about another revelation. An awful lot of explaining, an awful lot of apologising, but no real credibility that responsibility was being taken or that anything will change.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 692 ✭✭✭rdwight


    What protocols?

    The fact that at least three SF employees (one who was SF/IRA royalty and at least one of the others a senior employee) acted shamefully points to a cultural problem that won't be addressed by McDonald's plan to overhaul rules of governance.

    I'm reminded of the Policing Authority report into the garda breathlyser scandal. While accepting a lack of adequate training it noted "training is not necessary for people to be honest". Likewise rules of governance and training shouldn't be necessary for people to avoid putting children at risk.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 692 ✭✭✭rdwight


    Nobody in SF leadership hid the child abuse of McMonagle?

    Well, not mentioning the circumstances in which he left SF when giving a reference to BHF comes pretty close.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 692 ✭✭✭rdwight


    red silurian wrote

    "You people are sick in the head if that's what you think of me

    I'll try this again for your benefit one more time. In the same fashion that Liam Adams is Gerry Adams brother, Brian Cowen and Barry Cowen are also brothers. Also Simon and Rory Coveney are brothers

    Just to make it crystal clear to the pair of you, what I am saying is The actions of one brother does not require the expulsion of the other.

    The suggestion that I condone child abuse is not one I will take lightly if it happens again"

    Nobody sought to hold Gerry Adams accountable for the actions of his brother. It was what he did and didn't do himself when he found out about the abuse that led to calls for his resignation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Those who hid the police investigation were Press Officers in the employment of SF not leadership.

    This is more dis-ingenuous fudging similar to the Reynolds reinvention above.
    Adams was held to account and investigated by the police and the PPS decided not to prosecute, a decision that in itself was reviewed by the Attorney General and upheld.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭StormForce13


    Is there some suggestion that Sinn Fein may be going after the "decent person" demographic in the coming election? They've never targeted that demographic before!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 692 ✭✭✭rdwight


    As you well know Francie, the thresholds for prosecution and resignation can be very different. (The fact that you obviously know this makes your post an exemplar of disingenuousness)

    We need look no further that the current case for an example: nobody called for the prosecution of the SF employeess who gave references but they were forced to resign.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The last I checked, both the most senior HR person and the most senior Communications person where part of the senior leadership of every organisation I worked for.

    Just think about that, how rotten is an organisation when those two most senior persons can support a child abuser?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It was obvious why Gerry Adams was never prosecuted for perjury.

    He told one story to the TV programme, he told another story to the court. Without definitive proof that the court story was a lie, the obvious defence was that the story to the TV programme was a lie. He could never be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of the crime of perjury. But none of us have ever accused him of perjuring himself. What has been said is that Gerry lied about his knowledge of what his brother did. That is a true and verifiable fact because the two stories differed.

    If you tell two different stories at two different times about the same thing, then you are a liar. That is good enough for him to resign, not good enough to prosecute him for perjury.

    It does say something about Sinn Fein when they talk about high standards in public life, that the standard they set is that someone has to be convicted in court. Now, most people will believe, when they see the video, that the balance of probability is that MON saw McMonagle before her. That makes it a resigning issue.

    We have learned from this case that Sinn Fein have lower standards of behaviour than any other party.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    They cannot be prosecute because they didn't break any law, presumably.
    McMonagle was not guilty of any offence when the references were written.

    SF took the only action they could. Started an inquiry and accepted the resignations when they came.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 692 ✭✭✭rdwight


    Francie Brady wrote

    Those who hid the police investigation were Press Officers in the employment of SF not leadership.

    Sean Maguire is SF/IRA royalty and was, I believe, head of the press office. In such a tight organisation as Sinn Fein, that's as close to the leadership as makes little difference.

    As regards how widespread knowledge of McMonagle's subsequent employment was within Sinn Fein, I can't believe that in the two years from Septemeber 2022 nobody in "leadership" said "Whatvever happened to that McMonagle fellow, I hope it's not going to come back and bite us"



Advertisement