Independent Golfer Ireland

Those green fees of €40-50 are very standard relative to where club costs have gone. Most club's fees and subs haven't increased proportionally against costs.

To give some context, the cost of sand has gone up 50% in my local club. That's another €40k per year the club needs to find. Heat/Electricity is still more than double where it was a few years ago, even considering recent price drops. Unemployment is 4% and minimum wage has gone up. Meaning it's harder to keep staff and wages are obviously higher. So for those reasons, you're not going to see a €25 visitor green fee all that often, even for guests of a member. On an open day you might get close to that rate or possibly a last-minute golf now booking.

The reason I bring this up is that my local club released info this week explaining all of this to members ahead of an EGM. We need a 15 year loan to complete essential remedial works to facilities and projects while stabilising cash flow. The net result to the members is a €170 increase in sub/levy. Green fees were discussed and argued but they've been indexed against similar clubs in the area as appropriate.

You're spot on that it doesn't make sense to lose potential business from visitors. At the same time, the club needs to balance that against what they offer vs the other clubs competing for your business. It's no different than two restaurants or hairdressers. My club has a bar/restaurant and there's one half an hour away with a sandwich machine while experiencing regular course drainage problems. Which green fee do you think is higher?

Clubs need members to survive but they also need visitors just as much. Personally, I don't think iGolf folks should pay extra on green fees but I do think some consideration is needed on how to manage opens/prizes. That consideration is no different than handicap limits or the minimum number of score requirements. Clubs still have to determine what this is like.

I'd love to see an iGolf only open day in my club some Saturday that's promoted properly and with a genuine welcome to players. Let's face it, we are all there for 5 hours hitting a ball around a course for the same reasons. There should be more reasons for us all to be aligned than segregated into specific pens.

Don't give up on the iGolf scheme because a couple of stuffy clubs try to exclude you. That's their short-sighted naivety. Stick with it and I'm sure you'll find the majority of clubs will be warmly welcoming your business.

I'd be curious to know how many clubs are functioning successfully without an active membership.

Probably a couple of the big famous courses and resorts would be sustainable, but I imagine some of the smaller clubs could take an impact.

Not saying this will destroy club golf, but some clubs would certainly be put at higher risk

Exactly

They’d be stupid to spike prices for iGolf members

Cannot see clubs letting out iGolfers at the open day price.

They'll accept green fees from anyone already. Question is will they accept 'open' rates from them and allow them into open competitions. As with Slievenamon - which is essentially the same thing - they probably will as long as the numbers dont get out of hand. If clubs lost a tangible number of members to iGolf - which I dont think they will - I'd say the gloves would come off quickly.

Me personally I don't quite understand the case some people are making for iGolf allowing them to play only 10-15 times per year, with lower green fees, a handicap and 'competing'. I thought that's precisely what a golf society offers already? Whats the big difference, the 'official' handicap, competing against better golfers?

Yeah I see that since, which makes sense to do it that way.

Very true. Very few members clubs outside Dublin would survive without volunteers.

They also would not survive on green fees and membership alone and almost all run events such as draws,lottos and classics to keep their clubs afloat.

Most members pay well above their membership throughout the year so an Igolfer to pay a green fee to play in an open competition would seem very fair.

they’d be crazy to refuse the money. That’s the whole point of an open. Taking money elsewhere is a recipe for disaster

Was down in my old club this morning using their range. They have an open comp on today so I asked in the pro shop what the craic was with catering for iGolf members. Young asst pro basically said I couldn't enter as he didn't know how to process an iGolf entrant. Had a chat then with a club employee who I'd know and he said they're just going to see how it plays out first and see what the uptake is like. As things stand, he said, the iGolf people can actually sign in and be treated the same as any other visitor in an open comp. The mood of the club apparently is that they are totally against iGolf and that it has been foisted upon them by Golf Ireland. Probably the same feeling in most clubs.

Are you asking you're currently a pay and play member in a club and wondering if this gives to the 3 year block period?

Dont know for certain. But I guess if you're listed on GI as member of suchandsuch and have a GUI card with a club name printed on it then possibly yes. I havent heard the block is for full members only.

Out of curiosity what would the advantage of iGolf be over pay and play? Do you currently have a standing fee higher than €65?

Probably find is the powers of be in a club have an opinion and members feel they need to toe the line than give a different opinion otherwise it’ll be John Smith thinks it’s a great idea. Can you believe that. How could he think it’s good. Blacklist him.

The weather is another influence too, with how our seasons are going a lot of club members are maybe only getting 7/8 months usage from a 12 month subscription. Could be a factor to to consider for a lot of people when weighing up value for money.

The weather is the weather, we don't live in the South of Spain. Most countries at a latitude similar to Ireland all across Europe experience a harsh winter with little chance to play golf. Go to Scandinavia and they have next to no daylight even if it's mild enough to play. All of these countries even ones with lower cost of living are much more expensive to play golf in. Ireland is pound for pound one of the cheapest places to play golf. I'm not loaded and probably would struggle to play golf if I didn't live in Ireland (or UK with similar pricing tbf).

We'll have good years and bad years. My club was closed 44 days in the first 3 months of the year. There was something like 30% more rainfall for the previous year compared to the expected average. The end of last year was a disaster with rain tbf and I'm just as frustrated as next lad when the course is closed. In the last 4 years, I've probably played 2 out of every 3 Sundays for winter golf on a midlands parkland. It's colder than most of the country here but luckily we are somewhat sheltered from the worst wind/rain.

The argument of a cohort all for reducing our club's sub due to weather was dismantled in seconds. Fine, create a 6 month membership but you'll pay 90% of the same price as now and everyone else's membership increases proportionally. No one will vote that one in. The clubs still need money through winter and have staff plus overheads to pay. No income → no staff → less clubs → far more expensive green fees.

If it's any way feasible clubs need to look at introducing a simulator in their clubhouse. It generates revenue and covers for winter golf closures. It's not unrealistic to expect 25 hours of usage in 7 days @€40/hr. That's €1k per week and wouldn't take long to cover the investment. I'd happily throw €20 in for my 4ball to have 2 hours on the sim.