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Electric scooter on a B-license

  • 18-09-2024 12:19AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,842 ✭✭✭✭


    Apologies if it has been asked before, a quick search doesn't find it for me. I have the AM category on my driving license, this entitles me to ride a scooter with a combustion engine up to 50cc and a max speed of 45km/h, provided it is of course taxed and insured

    Does the same apply to an electric scooter with the same max speed?

    Two examples of electric scooter for sale on Donedeal at the moment:

    https://www.donedeal.ie/scooters-for-sale/niu-other-2021/37796417

    https://www.donedeal.ie/scooters-for-sale/vmoto-other-2023/36358722



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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I’ve been looking at EV Scooters in the UK for the last year. Specifically the SC01/ Seat Mo versions.

    They are equivalent of 125cc so it depends on the kw rating now days.

    I have my full bike licence nearly 20 years but the categories have changed since.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 407 ✭✭JP 1800


    For an AM licence "The machine must have a cylinder capacity not exceeding 50 cc, in the case of an internal combustion engine, or a maximum continuous rated power of no more than 4 kilowatts in the case of an electric motor. The vehicle must have a design speed of at least 25 km/h but not more than 45 km/h.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 407 ✭✭JP 1800


    I would ring for quotes on those scooters before going any further, the insurance might be a problem if the company does not have those bikes on their database.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,842 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    4kW is quite powerful for an electric motor, these have a ton of torque. That is welcome news. Do you happen to have any link to this by any chance?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    Lol, I bet nothing near any of my old Ebike projects running off LiPo packs lol .

    Not long after hitting 80 Km/hr "restricted" I said this is nuts and decommissioned the bike and that was the end of that for DIY ebikes !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    OP don't limit yourself, just get an A motorbike license and you are free to ride what you want be it small electric or big CC motorbike or 125 motorbike or whatever you want.

    personally speaking I'd rather a bit more poke than 45 Km/h in traffic rather than have cars up my arse all the time.

    A 125 cc is far more practical can be got up to around 15 Hp, can fill up in seconds for 200+ km range, a lot more fun or you can ride a much more powerful electric bike.

    Either way a lot better than those crappy battery scooters we see everywhere these days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,842 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    It would be mostly for local urban trips where the top speed is not the issue. I'd say a 4kW scooter is a lot faster away from the traffic lights than a 125cc motorbike that has only a fraction of the torque of an electric motor

    For fun fast drives up the mountains, I have a Lotus Elan turbo 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    Crap I see you're the OP didn't catch that, wouldn't have expected you here lol

    Well to be honest I find the back roads a lot more fun on the tmax despite it being a scooter, one real + for me even locally is not having to stop and pull into the grass verge to let traffic pass when on the tmax, I know you don't have that issue up in the smoke.

    I can't wait to get a proper motorbike though.

    A 4 Kw scooter even vs the Honda Cub 125, hmmm, the cub is 9 Kw and one of the lowest powers you get in a 125, if you don't know the Honda Cub 125, it's the most sold vehicle in history, the Cub that is, no other vehicle has sold in such large numbers but it's really cool looking and practical with a top box. I really like the Honda C90 but wouldn't mind the C125 either.

    Anyway, there are 125s with nearly twice the power @ around 15 Kw so not sure a 4 Kw battery scooter would be as fast off the line but is off the line performance your priority ?

    Either way, I'd say if you're thinking of 2 wheels like that then go for your A full bike license and it will open up a lot more bikes for you. I guarantee you will love 2 wheels a lot more than any car. IF you got the A license then you can ride absolutely anything from low power electric bike to high power electric bike to any form of motorbike or scooter you desire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,842 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    You still don't seem to understand that BHP is pretty meaningless when it comes to acceleration, torque is what matters there, in particular torque from idle. Which is bad in combustion vehicles and good in electric vehicles. I like the instant torque from electric vehicles because I want to be away from the lights very quickly.

    So, in case it wasn't already very clear from my original post, thanks for the suggestion, but I have no intention to buy a combustion 2 wheeler at this stage, so no point to further mention it. I am only considering electric scooters



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    lol 😆



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,842 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Rang Carole Nash and 3rd party insurance with zero excess and with a 2k mile annual limit on the Niu scooter I linked above is €247. More than I was hoping it would be. Is this good or bad in people's experience? Any other insurers I should try?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,978 ✭✭✭geotrig


    not sure you'd get much lower, id say there min policy prices for most is in or around 200-210 ish i think could be a buit lower. but there is principle and axa i think directly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,109 ✭✭✭✭GBX


    You have small pool of insurance companies to try:

    Liberty
    Carole Nash
    Principal
    Axa

    Give the other 3 a shout and hopefully it comes down. But cant see it dropping by much.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 407 ✭✭JP 1800


    You will have no NCB so getting the 250 qoute is an achievement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,842 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    The quote is through Carole Nash with Axa as the insurer. I rang Liberty as well and they don't insure anything electric on 2 wheels 🙄 even though my Tesla Model S is with them. Rang Principle and they don't have the scooter on their list, promised to ring me back, which didn't happen. So I guess I will just go with Carole Nash

    Thanks for the suggestions, much appreciated!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,842 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Result. Carole Nash was third party cover only, max 2k miles, no perks and no pillion covered (underwritten by AXA). Now I got fully comprehensive with AXA directly, unlimited mileage, breakdown cover and pillion covered for €243



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,978 ✭✭✭geotrig


    Thats a good fair price can't complain with that for 1st time insurance, have to say I like the look of that niu moved, well wear



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,842 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Like the look of the NIU too. Haven't got it yet though, there is some problem getting it to start, probably app related

    I got my inspiration to get one, a NIU in particular, after this randomly came up in my playlist last month. Guy trying to ride a NIU electric moped from the UK to Italy purely on solar PV:



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Top speed when riding an AM licenced bike is an issue even in urban areas. You will be topped out 5km/h less than the urban speed limit so you will leave the traffic for dead at the lights only to be passed 1 second later when they get to 50, unless you ride assertively you'll end up riding in the gutter.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,842 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Yes that's a concern. You can buy a new motherboard / controller that will up the max speed to 60km/h but I'm sure the insurer won't like that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    60km/h requires an A1 licence and it's 5 penalty points if caught doing 60km/h on an AM licence, you're insurance isn't valid.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    There's many 50 Km/h zones where drivers will force a bike like that off the road because they will ride 60 or more and it's no joke when on 2 wheels, especially a toy like that above. It's a different ball game be better off to get something that can do 100 Km/hr like one of the zero bikes which can hit probably 160 Km/h I don't know these days what they got really, once someone realises the fun 2 wheels offers if they have that extra power and speed they would see cars as a really boring way to get around.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,851 ✭✭✭Deagol


    It's possible you actually fail to understand that torque on the motorbike is much less important than for a car at a standstill. The PTW of a motorbike / inertia is much different to a car. And the ability of the single small contact path (motorcycle tyre is rounded not flat like a car, and only one drive wheel 99.9% of the time) to transfer torque without losing traction is much different also. That and the ability to keep the front wheel from heading skywards… I'd be willing to be a Cub 90 even never mind a 12kw 125cc motorbike would easily match a 4kw electric scooter.

    However, while I have 35 years experience driving motorcycles from 50cc to 1300cc, I've never driven an electric scooter so it's possible I'm overestimating one and underestimating t'other. But I doubt it :D



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,842 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    You'd be surprised. Several motorbikes have challenged me in my Tesla at traffic lights and I have been childish enough to take them on. They all lost, although their PTW was no doubt always far better than my 2.2 tonne car. Torque is what it is all about. Instant torque.

    The current Tesla Model S has a quicker 0-60 time than any motorbike or hypercar ever made. Even quicker than a Formula 1 car.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    Most motorcyclists just want to ride and enjoy the experience and listen to the engine and exhaust, change gears, torque means nothing to most normal people, even a 500 cc motorcycle will accelerate faster than the majority of family cars out there and most people are happy with the performance and fun which motorcycling provides, Driving a big heavy EV in straight line gets boring along with the range and recharge times.

    0-100 Km/h times doesn't matter to the Adrenalin junkies who ride motorcycles, it's the sheer top end speed that gives them the fix they crave, the fact any car can go 0-100 in a blink of an eye is meaningless. Torque of course matters but not in the way it matters to you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,842 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Finally picked up the Niu scooter today 😀

    Hopefully get a chance to go for a ride tomorrow. The scooter is lovely, like new. Only 988 miles on the clock. Very decent spec on these with LED lights, cruise control and even a slick app. It also came with a large optional back box, that could store a helmet. Had to take it off, to transport the scooter in my small van

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 602 ✭✭✭turbodiesel


    Wear well.

    I'm pretty sure Moto4u in Rathfarmham were selling them so might be worth considering if it needs anything like tyres.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,842 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Nice one, thank you. Looking forward to riding it tomorrow :-)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Mad_Lad


    lol 6 foot what on that yoke, please post a pic of you on it I got to see !

    Well wear anyway. I just might encourage you to get the full A license , I bet it won't be long before you find yourself wanting more power and speed, it's inevitable really once you realise how much fun 2 wheels are but you will notice a big difference vs ebikes being able to ride on the road properly with proper lights and indicators, brake lights etc.

    Pop into bikeworld just off the Longmile they have electric motor bikes in there.

    I don't know if Zero are available in Ireland ?



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