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Anyone else feel ashamed of getting the Covid shots?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,669 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Wrong. Michael Martin reintroduced lockdown measures in late December due to high levels of ICU cases.

    These measures were lifted in late January when Omicron became the dominant strain.

    I said it repeatedly at the time that for years to come people would be wrongfully crediting the vaccines and that is exactly what is happening.

    If the vaccines were doing such a good job, why were lockdown measures needed in December?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,984 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The virus mutated. Like seasonal flu.

    Take Smallpox, just one jab was needed, it didn't mutate. It went from killing 100's of millions of people to eradicated.

    Covid did mutate, hence vaccines couldn't eradicate it, only reduce transmission (to an extent), deaths and hospitalizations. Keyword: reduce.

    Despite all the best we could do with measures, vaccines, distancing, etc Covid still managed to fill hospitals with multiple surges. Hence countries still had temporary lockdowns to reduce that pressure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,502 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Nope, you are entirely wrong. You can say it however many times you like, it is a delusion not connected to reality.

    I already addressed this point by mentioning the Omicron experience of highly vaccinated Denmark and poorly vaccinated Hong Kong. As expected you ignored it in this reply, as you have no credible or coherent response to them.

    If vaccinations weren't doing a good job, why was Hong Kong so hard hit by Omicron?
    This is what would have happened in Ireland if we hadn't had vaccinations. Far more severe impact from Omicron.
    https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220217-battlefield-mode-hong-kong-hospitals-buckle-under-omicron-wave

    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202203/1254039.shtml

    Proof positive your claims are false, without merit and without foundation.

    A new strain brought an increase in cases, vaccination protection was still significant against Omicron. With Ireland's limited ICU capacity, restrictions were brought in - because of concerns of trajectory of increase. It was unknown at the time how severe Omicron would be, if there was a massive surge in cases, it would be too late by then.
    The measures announced were not as significant as against previous waves. It was not a lockdown, there were no stay at home orders, bars and restaurants could remain open until 8pm.

    It was clearly stated they were not expecting the same ratio of ICU cases.

    Varadkar told RTÉ’s Morning Ireland that the Government is not expecting the high cases numbers to translate to an increase in hospitalisations, ICU admissions and deaths to the same extent they did in previous Covid waves.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/new-covid-restrictions-ireland-20-december-2021-5635541-Dec2021/

    And these are the points you already ignored once. Do you think it wouldn't be noticed?
    If you reply again ignoring the experience of other vaccinated and unvaccinated countries, it will be further proof your claims haven't a leg to stand on.

    Restrictions were being lifted with vaccines well before Omicron in Ireland and elsewhere such as Denmark.

    Ireland temporarily brought some back while assessing Omicron severity.

    Denmark and others did not.

    Places like Hong Kong were hard hit by Omicron due to large numbers of unvaccinated.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,733 ✭✭✭ericzeking


    I explained it to you before that in order for us to have had the purported 4k deaths in 2020, pre vaccine, there had to have been vast swathes of the population infected, given the IFR…I won't do the sums for you again. Do you believe we had 4k deaths in 2020? Do you believe Covid was highly transmissible?

    Remember the people who were dying in 2020 were in nursing homes and hospitals, people who don't move around. If they were getting infected, what was the level of infection between those having bags of cans with the neighbours in the shed? Answer, massive.

    This is ignored all the time, conveniently. What they call vaccine immunity is actually massively down to unacknowledged population immunity.

    It's a huge confounder in any study.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,502 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I don't recall any such thing being explained in a credible manner. I remember some dodgy IFR figures being bandied about.

    If we had such immunity, why would there be such differential stats for ICU admissions for vaccinated versus unvaccinated in 2021. Across multiple jurisdictions, in study after study.

    If we had such immunity, why did antibody populations samples not show it, here or elsewhere.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,209 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,495 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Vaccinations starting again in westmeath, huge crowds are attending already



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,579 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    That old hoary chestnut of Covid-19 naturally acquired herd immunity has been shown in any number of studies for what it was.

    In Ireland (and in other jurisdictions) the differential statistics of those hospitalised and in ICU vaccinated compared to those unnvaccinated in 2021 show it, as do studies from Sweden, the Brazilian state of Amazonas and India.

    In Sweden, the poster boy state for the "let it rip" enthusiasts of acquired herd immunity, April 2020 public health officials estimated that in Stockholm by month`s end 33% of the population would be infected, and by the middle of June that figure would have risen to 40% - 60% having them well on the way to reaching the mythical naturally acquired herd immunity. Blood test results showed how wrong they were with results at the time showing just 7.3% having developed antibodies. The same antibody percentage at that time for similar epicenters of infections in Spain and France who both used lockdowns.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,025 ✭✭✭jackboy


    That sounds strange. That makes it sound like lockdowns had zero impact on the spread of Covid, which we know is not true.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,502 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    In the first wave of covid, the Swedes did a decent job of locking themselves down - as evidenced by drop in hospitality spending, less traffic, less movement of people between regions to holiday homes etc.

    Plus they were surrounded by countries \ an EU environment that did.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    Do you wear a helmet at all times in case you get hit by a golf ball?

    I mean, theres a high chance you won't get hit on the head by a golf ball, especially if you live nowhere near a course, but you just can't say there is zero risk.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,579 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    It shows that the Swedish approach of attempting to achieve naturally acquired herd immunity by letting the virus rip, (which was supporter on these threads by some), based on a large percentage of the population becoming infected was a nonsense.

    Lockdowns were used for the opposite reason. To reduce the numbers becoming infected and thus reducing the numbers requiring hospitalisation, ICU admission and deaths.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,025 ✭✭✭jackboy


    The part I could not understand about your post was 'let it rip' sweden having the same developed antibody numbers as the lockdown countries. That would not make sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,579 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    In April 2020 Sweden estimated that 33% of the population of Stcckholm has been infected. Serology results showed that just 7.3% of the population had developed antibodies. France`s epicentre of infections, Paris, showed the same percentage with antibodies from 9.3% estimated infections (National Library of Medicine). The percentage for those with antibodies was similar for Spain`s epicenter, Madrid for April 2020, yet Madrid`s percentage of infections were still only estimated at 25% a year later by Easter 2021 (International Journal of Infectious Diseases)

    It shows there was no correlation between numbers infected and those developing antibodies. Something the Swedish "let it rip" approach was based on in their attempt to chase naturally acquired herd immunity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭roshje


    Got the booster today. No shame



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,025 ✭✭✭jackboy


    No correlation between numbers infected and those developing antibodies does not make sense. That indicates potential inaccurate data in those studies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81 ✭✭Bailey43


    Looking forward to getting my updated vax (7th shot)in the next few weeks. I was one of the unlucky ones in march 2020 who ended up in icu and on a ventilator believe me I will try my best not to be going back there again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,459 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Me too. Flu in one arm, Pfizer Covid 19 in the other.

    Not ashamed one iota, because I have infirm elderly parents, and my duty to protect them comes before my feeling like crap for 48 hours, which I kinda do today.

    Its not a binary question this, by the way. Moderna jabs made me feel dreadful for a few days, Pfizer much less so. And the particular danger with the Janssen version of the vaccine appears to be both relevant and widespread. I would not receive it myself in any circumstances.

    And so, as ever in modern public discourse, sight is quickly lost to the fact, that two, or even three things can be true at once.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 88 ✭✭Candlel


    Not ashamed, but was coerced as my family had to get them in order to travel. Never had Covid as far as I know, and will not be getting another shot. Don’t take the flu vaccine either. But I’m getting a shingles vaccine soon. Once I’m over this very bad viral infection I have that consists of a serious deep cough.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes, there was a lot of coercion, unfortunately. Thank God that it was possible to escape to normal countries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,579 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    THen if it doesn`t make sense to you then you should take it up with the Swedish health authority as the data is not mine, it`s theirs. Their premise, lead by their state epidemilogist Tegnell and his mentor former state epidemilogist Giesecke, was that by becoming infected and surviving provided immunity from any future infection and if enough people became infected then Sweden would reach the level of naturally acquired immunity. When seroprevalance showed that just 7.3% of the population of Stockholm had developed antibodies compared to the 33% infected it showed how wrong the premise was.

    If the Swedish data shows anything it`s how dangerous chasing naturally acquired herd immunity was for Covid-19. Something that was probably best expressed by Anita Linde, Ternell`s predecessor as state epidemilogist when she broke ranks when this data became public and said that the premise was like a dream with little basis in reality.

    But Sweden, even if they were the fore-runners were not the only ones to show how wrong the premise was. Both India and in particular the city of Manaus, Brazil`s epicenter of Covid-19 infections and deaths, also showed it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,579 ✭✭✭✭charlie14




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,579 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Disagree all you want. It doesn`t change the facts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,209 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    If the janssen was the only vaccine available I would take my chances with it. Really hard to know if it's that dangerous. Yes as we have other options why risk it but if it was the only option available I definitely have accepted the risk back before Omicrom

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 561 ✭✭✭CliffHangeroner


    I hadn't even realised covid vaccinations are still a thing tbh. I got the first two shots years back to be able to go on holiday with no hassles not ashamed in any way



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81 ✭✭Bailey43


    Got my updated booster (7) and flu jab yesterday. I was sore on the booster side and ok on the flu jab side but very very tired all day today. Hopefully that's me covered for the winter.



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