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Harris Vs Trump 2024 US Presidential election - read the warning in the OP posted 18/09/24

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Comments

  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,741 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    That's not the point, all countries struggled to some extent or other and all absolutely made mistakes when reviewed after the fact. But they were making a 'best effort' to do the right thing with the information available at the time.

    But Trump actively interfered and diminished the efforts of the experts because he didn't like them getting more attention than him.

    He also politicized everything and undermined his own Governments efforts to try and keep his MAGA faithful conspiracy theorist voters onside.

    He was more worried about how Covid would effect him and his election chances than he was about actually doing the right thing



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,741 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,574 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    It's a chicken, comparison shot with other chickens included. It would be a much weirder looking cat tbh. So we can conclude that Trump was spreading bullshit and Vance helped. So basically they were spreading racist rumours and some people are gullible enough to believe it. John Oliver has a great segment on the rumour this week btw.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why did it just come out now? Probably because the poll was taken between September 17-21.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,946 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Late-Term Abortion Is a Myth

    Unnecessary late term abortions are a myth

    Abortions After Birth Don’t Happen

    There is no such thing as an abortion after birth

    Pro-Life Protections Prevent Miscarriage Care

    Savita Halappanavar

    Donald Trump Would Have the Government Monitor Pregnancies and Miscarriages

    You cannot say for certainty he wouldn't do it, she has suggested he will do it but until he does not do it there is no lie here.

    Trump Would Sign A National Abortion Ban

    Same reply as above

    Trump Called for a Bloodbath

    You get 1 out of 9

    Project 2025 Is Trump’s Plan

    Its a plan he very likely supports in private and knew full well what it entailed prior to it being made so public, its absolutely his plan in that he and his staff will enact it if hes elected.

    Trump Praised Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists

    "Both sides"

     Trump Is Above the Law



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,329 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Oh look as an independent observer I’d be pretty clear she definitely needs another debate where she has a chance to land very crystal clear policy messages - I think Trump knows that so he’s not going to grant her one



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭Real Donald Trump


    Sweden coped just fine without heavy restrictions. More people died under Biden btw

    https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/covid-19-deaths-under-biden-surpass-deaths-during-trump-administration/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭Real Donald Trump


    True, he won't fall into that trap again like with ABC. She does have plenty of platforms though, great chance with Oprah, but she just broke into word salads, and never answered any question right, that will be her downfall, and as for her VP candidate he basically endorsed Trump over the weekend, without realising it.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,741 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    My apologies..I was looking at info on the 538 site and saw the dates next to another Sienna poll and mixed them up.

    The dates are as you say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,005 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I gotta say, I despair for the US and the people there if this is the expected standard of elections in future

    The whole circus is just a personality contest with one side in particular being totally divorced from reality (I'm talking about Trump supporters, just in case anyone didn't get it)

    I can see why people refer to the "current season of America", the whole thing resembles a drama more than real life

    And the truly sad thing is that even if Harris (hopefully) wins, this won't be the end of it. Trump is as much a symptom of the problem as the cause. Think of the garbage politicians that have been running from the Republican party for decades

    People like Mitch McConnell, Ted Cruz and others who treat the idea of decency and integrity like a plague. Who have long ago hit the rock bottom on inhumane behaviour and decided to try and dig deeper

    If Trump loses then he'll either whine and run again, trying to push the party to further extremes, or will "retire" to a position where he holds the reins of power within the party. And after he dies (he's 78 after all, and not the healthiest looking pensioner) it'll be a battle of his family and acolytes to see who succeeds him

    If this was any other country in the world they'd probably be referred to as a failed state at this point

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Oh yay gish gallop:

    Late-Term Abortion Is a Myth

    Kamala Harris never claimed this was a 'myth' she made the point that late-term abortions do not happen except in exceptional cases - because nobody carries a fetus to 9 months without the intention of delivering a happy healthy child.

    LINSEY DAVIS: Vice President Harris, I want to give you your time to respond. But I do want to ask, would you support any restrictions on a woman's right to an abortion?

    VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: I absolutely support reinstating the protections of Roe v. Wade. And as you rightly mentioned, nowhere in America is a woman carrying a pregnancy to term and asking for an abortion. That is not happening. It's insulting to the women of America. 

    Abortions at term are the most exceptional ones performed and only happen in the most extreme cases such as eg. an ectopic pregnancy. She is correct to say these are not performed electively.

    Abortions After Birth Don’t Happen

    She never claimed these happen - and also, they don't happen. Did you mean infanticide? Because that's already illegal in all 50 states and DC. The example Trump was flipping out over (wrong state by the way - it was Virginia) had to do with a nonviable fetus who is then delivered and given palliative care because they have no chance of survival.

    Pro-Life Protections Prevent Miscarriage Care

    This is a fact, written in blood. We already have the names of several women who died from otherwise preventable cause but only for refusal to treat them under the GOP's barbaric 'pro-life' regimes, eg. Amber Nicole Thurman down in GA, denied a dilation and curettage to save her life because the procedure had been made a criminal offense:

    https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-abortion-ban-amber-thurman-death

    Donald Trump Would Have the Government Monitor Pregnancies and Miscarriages

    He would. It's in project 2025: they want the CDC tracking this.

    Trump Would Sign A National Abortion Ban

    He's said as much. As POTUS he called for a 20-week abortion ban, and in 2016 as a candidate said there needs to be "some form of punishment" for doctors and women for an abortion.

    Trump Called for a Bloodbath

    She didn't say this exactly, and neither did he, he didn't call for a bloodbath he said it's going to be one; what she said of his comments was: "Donald Trump the candidate has said in this election there will be a bloodbath, if this -- and the outcome of this election is not to his liking." which is correct, he did say there will be a bloodbath if he doesn't like the outcome of the election: "Now, if I don’t get elected, it’s going to be a bloodbath, for the whole — that’s going to be the least of it. It’s going to be a bloodbath for the country. That’ll be the least of it. "

    Project 2025 Is Trump’s Plan

    It is as about as much his plan as The Art of the Deal was his ideas, his name might not be on the cover but all of his policies and agenda are in there, and it's written by most of his administration lackeys (the ones who haven't ostracized him yet), and their training material references Trump extensively, most of the training lecturers introduce themselves as members or his administration or his campaign.

    Trump Praised Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists

    She never made this claim, she did say quote: "Let's remember Charlottesville, where there was a mob of people carrying tiki torches, spewing antisemitic hate, and what did the president then at the time say? There were fine people on each side. "

    This is all true: there was a mob, they carried torches, they spewed antisemitism, and Trump said there were fine people on each side. There were no fine people on the right, at the unite the right rally. Every right wing org in attendance were white supremacists and neonazis, they carried KKK and Nazi regalia and the like. If a 'fine person' rallies besides 2 nazis, then you have 3 nazis.

    Trump Is Above the Law

    She never actually said that, you can word search the debate transcript. What she said was "The United States Supreme Court recently ruled that the former president would essentially be immune from any misconduct if he were to enter the white house again. "

    This again, is essentially true, though it's not a categorically clear statement, being 'immune from misconduct' is a bit garbled from saying the POTUS is essentially immune from criminal prosecution for misconduct in office because how vastly encompassing the court determined that official acts are immune from prosecution, and unofficial acts cannot be tried using evidence of official misconduct, ie. you could not supply evidence in a bribery case that the president supplied an official act in exchange for an illegal gift, evidence of the consummated illicit deal would be barred from evidence because it involved an official act.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,741 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The worrying thing is that Tucker Carlson is shaping up to be the preferred choice after Trump.

    Carlson is far more dangerous than Trump mainly because he isn't a deluded narcissist and is capable of appearing normal and superficially reasonable.

    He is the master of the" just asking questions" approach beloved by the racists , homophobic and misogynists in MAGA world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    For which he has only himself to blame. "totally under control" he said. Perhaps if he wasn't so busy cutting off relations with China they would have been more forthcoming about a new virulent pathogen, earlier on. From there it was also Trump's choice to play deadly political games with the states, eg. stealing certain states ventilator purchases if they were 'blue' states etc., or giving away trillions of dollars to cronies through PPP and hoping nobody would care, or politicizing masks and social distancing - which also got tens of thousands of his own voters and many of his own surrogates killed. Remember Herman Cain?

    How he handled it was entirely up to him, by all accounts Trump could have taken 2020 in a landslide if he had managed the pandemic competently. But he didn't, and that's key, not because of Covid, but because of him, to any other incumbent Covid would have been a godsend miracle for their re-election chances, but Trump couldn't even handle that.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Late-Term Abortion Is a Myth

    Unnecessary late term abortions are a myth

    21 states allow abortions up until birth.

    Abortions After Birth Don’t Happen

    There is no such thing as an abortion after birth

    Whistleblowers have noted abortionists regularly allowed children to be born alive, then die by neglect. The same happens from botched abortions where the baby is born alive.

    Pro-Life Protections Prevent Miscarriage Care

    Savita Halappanavar

    No pro-life law in the nation prohibits doctors from caring for miscarriages. 

    Donald Trump Would Have the Government Monitor Pregnancies and Miscarriages

    You cannot say for certainty he wouldn't do it, she has suggested he will do it but until he does not do it there is no lie here.

    Trump has not made such a proposal.

    Trump Would Sign A National Abortion Ban

    Same reply as above

    Trump has repeatedly said he opposes any further national legislation on the issue. He said… “It’s the vote of the people now" 

    Trump Called for a Bloodbath

    You get 1 out of 0

    A lie by taking a word out of context… a tactic loved by democrats. “We’re going to put a 100% tariff on every single car that comes across the line, and you’re not going to be able to sell those cars if I get elected. Now, if I don’t get elected, it’s going to be a bloodbath for the whole industry”

    Project 2025 Is Trump’s Plan

    Its a plan he very likely supports in private and knew full well what it entailed prior to it being made so public, its absolutely his plan in that he and his staff will enact it if hes elected.

    The plan’s authors have acknowledged Trump had nothing to do with their conservative vision for the next four years. “Project 2025 is not affiliated with any candidate, and no candidate was involved with the drafting of the Mandate for Leadership, which was published by Heritage in April 2023,”

    Trump Praised Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists

    "Both sides"

    Even left leading Snopes declared: “No, Trump Did Not Call Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists ‘Very Fine People.’” 

    The comment was made regarding the following, where democrats love to lie by taking words out of context.

    “You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name,” because of Lee’s role as military leader of the Confederacy. But many Founding Fathers were also slaveowners. “Are we gonna take down statues of George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson?” he asked. “You’re changing history. You’re changing culture.”

     Trump Is Above the Law

    Harris is a lying fool. She knows damn well what was written by the SCOTUS decision:

    “The President enjoys no immunity for his unofficial acts, and not everything the President does is official,” stated the court ruling, written by Chief Justice John Roberts. “The President is not above the law.”



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If you don't understand that this whole election is about white grievance - you don't understand anything about this election and you will never understand why 45% of Americans would vote for Trump even if he shat himself on stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Trump said last week he'd fight antisemitism now he wants to replicate the Holocaust. Brilliant



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,619 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    She wants a debate on CNN.

    Trump has already done a debate on CNN with Biden. He also did one on ABC.

    Why not have one on a right wing channel for some balance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,329 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Well I believe she’d be well able for it - enter the lions den and all of that 😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭nachouser


    You can lead a horse to water…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,619 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,005 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Ugh, that's an alarming thought

    I'm not sure I agree with the idea that Carlson can appear normal. He seemed to manage that earlier in his career, presumably because he had to watch what he said

    However the past few years he's largely viewed himself untouchable and has flown fully off the rails

    If anything I'd say he's even more of a deluded narcissist than Trump. I've also never seen him come out with an idea that wasn't spoon fed to him

    He's very much a reflection of Trumps worst qualities, which is another alarming thought

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    More people died under Biden btw

    Do you really need exponential growth explained?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭Real Donald Trump


    It's quite simple, She would not get the questions in advance with Fox, and might actually have to answer some tough questions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,574 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Didn't you promise that with her first debate?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm not trying to be mean or condescending, but those long comments to me are not worth the time it takes to read. I'm sure you make some valid points but if it is a long read then it is not for me. It would help (at least when you address something to me) if you made your point in a shorter more concise manner, especially if you would like a response. The key to effective communication is brevity.

    Warned and 1 day forum ban applied

    Post edited by Beasty on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭Real Donald Trump




  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,619 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    I don't believe I did, I said both Trump and Harris were poor debaters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,329 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    How so? Questions are questions - she’d be well able for the sh01te such a TV station would throw at her



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,037 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    So you can prove the democrats cheated, but lawyers in the US took over 60 cases and lost each case?

    Okay.

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



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