Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Amazon WFH Policy

1679111216

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    I’d guess that awkwardness is based on resentment from the office based staff rather than diminished social skills from the WFH staff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    The thing I find kinda depressing about this debate is that pretty much everyone I speak to says they are more productive working wherever suits them best. I've yet to hear someone say "I'm more productive at home but prefer being in the office" or vice versa. Opinions on this are pretty much universally self-serving.

    However, my view on it is that the genie is out of the bottle and it's not worth the time, effort and disruption it causes to force people back into the office 5 days unless you have very clear and conclusive evidence that it's beneficial. And I've yet to see anything conclusive one way or the other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,525 ✭✭✭RedXIV


    Lets be honest though, the resistance to this is giving off the same sort of vibes that we hear of happening when unions fought to get weekends off, and upper management screamed and shouted that it was a massive dent in productivity.

    But the reality is that it makes for better society. Working continues to evolve with new technologies to further enhance productivity and people who rail against WFH may very well be the people 30, 40 years ago who railed against computers coming into offices as it's different and would enable people to now play solitaire at their desk instead of work.

    The trick here, as said before, is getting the process in place to enable performance tracking remotely. Employees want flexibility, and are searching for it actively. Companies that invest in the ability to offer this are going to get first pick of a lot of candidates.

    Those fighting WFH are starting to smell a little of "we have worked this way for the last 20 years, why change?!" but change is how you evolve and those that don't change inevitably eventually collapse.

    Yes people who WFH can go and put the washing out or go and pick up kids from school, but ultimately, if the work is getting done, that's what should be important. These "perks" again are no difference from when computers arrived and people all of a sudden could access the internet and you can be certain that folks do access the internet in work for leisure but you can be certain that overall, it improved productivity with the ability to send email, look up information, interconnected systems etc. People are more effective, even with access to things management are afraid of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1 clickser


    Some utterly laughable weak inputs by managers here. God help your staff.

    You lads are rowing against the tide. The days of corporate overlords is coming to an end.

    "I'm so great I worked so hard when I was WFH, but I don't trust my staff to do the same". Such puke inducing corporate bootlicking bs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,478 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    We had a sales exec dipshit in last week talking about coming onsite to do their job and how they wanted everyone onsite. Sure why you're travelling home you can call into a customer on the way home and make a sales pitch.

    I was just looking at them thinking what a bunch of dinosaurs. Within 10 years big companies won't even have sales execs since it will all be done via AI.

    You'll simply have an AI with guidelines on sales prices, your customer AI will contact yours and other hardware companies with a quote for 3000 laptops, 500 storage servers, 500 AI servers and whichever one gives the best price will get the deal. All done within seconds. No need to be paying millions out sales execs, or in bonuses.

    And I work in AI..you'll still need developers, intent programmers, prompt engineering etc but the top level sales execs..they're gone but they don't see it yet. They only see the bottom feeders but you can be sure that the CEO's etc all see this in their heads already. Hell with how fast technology is changing it could be 5 years.

    More and more of these massive companies will become more automated.. execs and senior management are severely at risk and they know it. Its one of the reasons they're mandating RTO as well.

    1. to force people to leave and reduce separation costs
    2. to keep themselves in jobs..


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭Sono


    Spot on, some of the posts here are unbelievable. It actually says a lot more about the managers posting here than their employees.

    I am glad I do not work for the14thwarrior that is for sure!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,778 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Yes, I did. Strangely, people turning down promotions happens all the time.

    Do you always try to belittle anyone who turns down a promotion?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,198 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Very true, but because you can't discriminate against people WFH with kids at home, you need to have everyone in the office to avoid folks working from home with kids present.

    That's not the fault of the employers though, they don't make the laws.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,085 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    When Covid came the company I work for naturally mandated that we all work from home. That was grand. The job got done but my oh my, what an eye opener. It gave me so much more time to spend with my young daughter. I wasn't spending hours in the car each day commuting (almost 1 hour each way).
    I eventually changed company and the one I work for now has a fully remote contract which I'm on. My plan is never to go back to the office full time. My job can be done remotely and done well, there is no need to have the team in the office full time. Having the ability to drop my daughter to school and collect her is immeasurable to my well being. Working from home was an eye opener onto how much I was missing out.
    We still have the occasional day in the office and everyone gets on grand and enjoys being around their teammates but most look forward to being back at home the next day.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,012 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Depends on the job, some are paying for your time, some are paying for the job, there is a difference a lot of Irish middle managers don't realise. If I am a barman or a calls agent, I am being paid for both my time and my expertise, so yes, I have to be there, from open to close. Both have metrics, aside from being there, A bar person, to be able to take multiple orders, no till errors, keeping waiting times down, etc. It won't be written down obviously but it will be noted. The call agent could be number of calls, ratings, number of retentions etc.

    On the other hand, if I am a researcher on a project for work, yes there are meetings that I have to be around for but the metrics are normally on various time scales, and so long as I am on track, whether I take no lunches or I take two hour saunters, does not matter, so long as by Friday KPI1 is hit and in two months we have completed work package 1 and 2. Yes they could work more but it is not a requirement, so long as the minimum is getting done. They may do more to make themselves more attractive for the next role or to set up a new project but as a manager, while there bonuses or attractiveness for the next project increases, it is not a requirement for the current position. If they want to go light on work from 3 to 5 for childcare and catch up in the evening or the morning, I don't care, so long as at or before the deadline, the appropriate report is on my desk.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thats true but it can be in a contact of employment in an inclusive way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,198 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Thats my point. Not all roles or businesses operate the same way, so there is never a single solution that will be appropriate to every case.

    Some businesses will always require staff to be in the office and some will not.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Full working in the office for jobs that can be done at home is never coming back it will be blended working the saving in office costs are too huge for employers not to do it.

    I know a few who work from home and no one messes with it, they don't do house work except at lunch time, they are not minding children, they know they are in work but they they all know people who are taking advantage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    Think you might be underestimating the value of good sales people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 563 ✭✭✭SodiumCooled


    Full time childcare I would fully agree cannot be done if WFH, it’s far too distracting but I don’t see why you would have issue with most of the things on that list - once the work is being done that’s all that should matter. Things like school runs are par for the course and the reason why wfh is such a game changer along with being able to stick on wash or other brief chores. Also you have your lunch time and when at home can get lots done in this time rather than browsing the internet which is what I generally end up doing for an hour in the office.

    When someone mentions things like putting on a wash or a school run being an issue with WFH they seem to ignore the amount of distraction and time spent not working when In the office.

    The logging on and having breakfast is an interesting one as I generally don’t do this when wfh as I am not under time pressure but on days in the office it’s not unusual for a few of us to go to the nearby cafe after our morning meeting and we could be sitting there chatting and drinking coffee for 30 mins+.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,198 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    It can, but the contract is usually role based.

    If you have 2 people doing the same job, they are likley to have the same contract, regardless of whether they have small kids or not.

    You couldn't allow the person that doesn't have kids to WFH and tell the other person that does have kids that they need to be in the office 5 days a week, when they both have the same job role.

    In this situation, the employer is likley to have both of them in the office, if they feel the employee with small kids isn't as productive when WFH.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't think anyone is talking about dropping children to school as an issued it's actually minding children while they are working I doubt anyone is minding children full time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 563 ✭✭✭SodiumCooled


    I think turning down promotions or putting efforts into arguing retaining remote/hybrid work rather than chasing pay rises is common these days. I would fall into this category - overdue a pay rise but not wanting to give them the excuse to say “come in 5 days and you can have the pay rise” or similar.

    The dell situation was a good example of this:

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/06/nearly-half-of-dells-workforce-refused-to-return-to-the-office/


    To summarise, to get people back from fully remote to hybrid dell said anyone opting to remain fully remote would exclude themselves from being considered for promotions or applying for new internal roles. The result was almost 50% of people said fine, we will forgo the promotions to remain fully remote. Remember this was not even a full RTO mandate just come in 39 days a quarter which would be likely be a 2 or 3 days a week for most which wasn’t even unreasonable in my opinion given the 5 day RTO mandates elsewhere.

    Post edited by SodiumCooled on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭Deub


    you will probably be taking at least a 50% pay cut unless you can land a job in the other large US companies like Google, Meta, Microsoft etc. 

    Where did you get that number?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,778 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    The pandemic woke a lot of people up to the true value of a good work/life balance, and as you say, are willing to forgo some things to achieve or maintain one.

    If I heard someone had turned down a promotion I wouldn't immediately jump to the conclusion that it's because they are lazy or didn't want the hassle, but that they considered it carefully and have their own reasons for doing so.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A long time ago I knew a lone parent who turned down a promotion because it would have affected their child getting any college grant.

    People always try to make circumstances suit themselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 ✭✭Soc_Alt


    I find it funny.

    People who worked in office before the pandemic are making so many excuses in relation to not wanting to return to the office.

    Kpi's etc are irrelevant.

    If you are told to return to the office, you will be returning to the office like before.

    It's not your call. It your employers.

    If you don't agree with the companies policy then try another company.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,882 ✭✭✭✭The Nal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,360 ✭✭✭witchgirl26


    My company has a 3 days in the office, 2 days wfh policy. They have said that this isn't changing anytime soon in either direction. Now if someone has a particular need to wfh more often, they can come to an agreement with their manager but that's on an individual by individual basis. I think there's only a couple of people who have that.

    We also have it in our contracts that we cannot be responsible for the care of any dependent (child or adult) during our wfh periods so can't use it as childcare. My son is in senior infants so he goes to an afterschool. On the odd day where he's sick, or afterschool is closed for some reason, I have collected him & looked after him. My boss has been aware. Personally I don't know how you coud do that full time as neither work nor my child is getting the best from me. I can understand with older children in the latter part of primary school might be ok as they somewhat look after themselves.

    And yes on my wfh days, I do put on the laundry, clean the kitchen etc. I do it while I'm waiting for the kettle to boil or while I'm taking my lunch. If I was in the office, I'd still be taking that tea break & lunch but I wouldn't be as productive during them.

    I could never go back to 5 days a week wfh as I think I'd go insane. I also don't think I could always do 5 days in the office but if that what was mandated, I'd look at it. I don't have a crazy commute though so that does make a difference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,778 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    I can see why that might be a legitimate reason for them. College is expensive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    Personally, 5 days in the office doesn't suit me for a host of reasons and I really, really don't want to do it. I'm not sure where I'm more productive if I'm honest but I do believe that managers should be managing outputs rather than attendance.

    However, it's my employer's call. They are within their rights to ask me to come back in 5 days whatever I think about it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Re supervising children when working it is not just that the person could be looking after parents or trying to do anything while working so the contract of employment would be worded in a way that states working from home is the same as working in the office.

    There is another point blurring the lines between work and home supervising children doing housework and constantly switching between them is bad for your home life and mental health in a modern context.

    however when on a lunch break the person can do anything they want including go swimming.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They got promoted twice since then as but at the time it was better to forgo to be pay increases and get the grant for their child they were the kind that had everything worked out to a t because they had to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,681 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    I love Working From Hawaii (WFH).

    Especially in the winter months.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Delighted for you but your not the average person on here.



Advertisement