Amazon WFH Policy

digiman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122647183#Comment_122647183

I’m talking about the FANNG companies here specifically and that is the reality. I’m not sure about other MNCs, for example I know the pharma companies don’t pay all that differently for similar type of roles compared to Irish companies.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646659#Comment_122646659

Very few people actually have Hybrid or Remote days etc defined in their employment contracts, even those that have gotten employment contracts in the past 4 years.

At best if such a clause exists, so to does the 'depending on business requirements' or similar to that.

A lot of companies are bringing people back in for various reasons. As others have said not every person is the same. For every one person who does a diligent job remotely there's probably another doing SFA or as I stated earlier is in a role that's probably fluffy as **** anyway.

digiman

At the end of the day it’s all trade-offs, the FANNGs that are paying a lot more are expecting a lot more impact from their employees compared to what is expected from other companies. And with that comes a lot more pressure to perform because if you don’t perform you don’t get paid the bigger bonus which can be significant % of total pay or it can mean your pushed out the door.

I’m at stage now where I will do it for another couple of years I think and then will try to get something a lot easier with a much improved work life balance. And I’ll be ok to take a 50% pay cut for that when that time comes either by my own decision or being kicked out.

There is no free lunch in any of it, it’s all earned and if you don’t earn it then you will be looking for another job pretty quickly.

digiman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648407#Comment_122648407

Everyone’s different, I really enjoy the work overall and don’t mind the stress too much. Sure there are times when I think what am I doing this for, but I like nice things and nobody is going to just hand them to me so if I can do a job I enjoy 90% of the time and get well paid for it then it’s a no brainer.

Blazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122647409#Comment_122647409

you have that onsite as well.

I'm fully remote but some of my team do hybrid. We all work hard regardless of where we are but I do go onsite one day a week or fortnight when I have bandwidth.

Because when I go onsite all I'm doing is going into a meeting booth for my calls and replicating my home environment ( have a dedicated office). In fact I actually do less as I tend to catch up with people who have nothing to do with my role but I know from my time in the company. And I see this a lot onsite. People taking long lunches, coffee breaks to "catch up" etc etc.

A lot of senior mangers are pushing this on-site nonsense to justify their jobs too…most of them are in ERGs and dicking around for the day and using that to show how busy they are when in reality at least 20% of their time is taken up by non-role related events.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648407#Comment_122648407

i dont get why someone will settle for a stable job and not maximise their earnings, everyone is different. But a bit like digiman i like enjoy my work. if i didnt id move.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646812#Comment_122646812

weak managers?

this whole thread is people complaining that the management havent a clue, yet the people they manage have all the answers?

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646947#Comment_122646947

Where on earth are you pulling those figures from?! 2007? Grads do not get €100k with no experience.

Morgan McKinley IT Salary Survey (for Ireland) for 2024 https://www.morganmckinley.com/ie/salary-guide/technology/permanent-salaries

Not 1 of the roles under the 0-3 years experience is getting that & the ones that are near are manager level. Which you're not going to get straight out of college. There are €100k plus roles in the 5+ years experience category though.

I also know from my brother who is high up in IT in a non-software American MNC & there would be no way he'd hire someone on a salary like that & if anyone came in with expectations that high, he'd laugh at them.

RedXIV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648407#Comment_122648407

Ah it was worth it to build up the house deposit initially, and acknowledging the fact these places work you to the bone, there's no denying you usually get very good experience from them which only helps getting future jobs. I had a miserable 3 years working for a silicon valley company (well first 2 years were more "manic" than "miserable") but while I definitely felt my work life balance suffer, there's no doubt that the additions to my CV have only made it that much easier in future job hunts. But it's done now, house is bought, I have the experience, time to dial it back a bit

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648658#Comment_122648658

I dont know where this myth came from that 21 year olds are walking out of college into 150k tech jobs.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648450#Comment_122648450

You do, agreed - there's plenty of slacking off everywhere by various people, I suppose it can be managed better (but often isn't) while in the office, or "offences" aren't as blatent (doing household chores, pickups or perhaps doing a completely different piece of work) if you are in the office.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648739#Comment_122648739

how did 100k become 150k?

Im sure there are people going into sales roles at least with OTE near that.

Sono

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648481#Comment_122648481

I am not in any way saying I have all the answers, I can only speak from my own experiences of wfh.

I totally get that the manager has difficulties with staff not performing at home, my argument is the people who are causing problems by not pulling their weight at home, are the exact ones who didn't pull their weight in the office. I see no difference in it and I could have predicted the ones who would take the piss at home as they are the same in person.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646661#Comment_122646661

Just for clarity on promotions in the civil service, (and some parts of the wider public service). You apply for promotion based on grade (with the exception of TLAC positions). This can either be through an open competition or an interdepartmental one.

Once you succeed at the competition stage, you are placed on a panel in order of merit for the next available vacancy at the new higher grade.

Until a vacancy comes up and an offer is made, you have literally no idea where you could be working. The role offered could mean an extended commute, or extra office days, (or even no WFH), less flexibility etc. The offer could be for a vacancy in any Gov department.

So, literally no one cares if, at that stage, someone considers the offer, decides it doesn't suit them and turns it down. Nor will it be "frowned upon". The vacancy will just get offered to the next person on the panel.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648778#Comment_122648778

Ultimately poor staff are poor staff, at home or in the office, you can be more proactive about dealing with them in person as often it can be out of sight out of mind. But the end outcome will probably be the same, its just more likely they can cruise along under the radar at home in certain scenarios.

Sono

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648791#Comment_122648791

I would agree with you there, out of sight, out of mind kinda thing.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648450#Comment_122648450

Yeah I'm exactly the same. Work from home 99% of the time - my team is global and my line manager is in the UK. I've worked for 3 companies in the past 2 years and all were WFH roles with similar setup. All were MNC but not FAANG.

Current job is making noises about a RTO policy, but, like it is in Amazon, I suspect this is accelerating natural attrition and avoiding paying for layoffs as opposed to an actual interest in RTO. I've been to the office a few times and it's usually spent at least 30% of the time meeting people in person that I work with, coffee etc. The remainder of the day is commuting, and spent in a meeting room which may as well be my home office. I have a deal in my head with myself that whenever I go to the office on a specific day, I leave the house when I would normally start work at home (so the commute is coming from work time) and I leave on time… no late calls or work. At home I could do 10+ hours a day but it's much less than that in the office.

SodiumCooled

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648791#Comment_122648791

I think it’s actually easier for people to slack off in the office rather than at home if I’m honest - it is probably dependant on company and type of work but in my experience (including myself) I feel the need to be more responsive and get more done when at home whereas when onsite if you aren’t responding or at your desk you could be in a meeting, in any numbers of areas of the production or R&D facility when you could just as easily be chatting or in the coffee shop.

Also and I’m sure it’s the case for lots of people my direct manager is not even in our time zone never mind onsite so while your presence onsite may be noticed by other senior management or higher on any given day they have no care nor idea on your actual work or whereabouts throughout the day. I also do no more checking on staff that report to me when we are in the office or either I or they are remote on any given day. If the work is being done that’s the metric that I care about and most others aside from the company overloads who are obsessed with presentisim with no clue about the day to day dynamics of teams (and how well they are working with the current mix).

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648877#Comment_122648877

and not every one is happy just to have an easy life, personally it surprises me how many people are happy just to coast along.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648870#Comment_122648870

might be in your particular set of circumstances i still think as a general rule its easier slack off when WFH.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648891#Comment_122648891

In large companies though it’s not the managers asking employees to return to the office- it’s the senior executives . Even managers are quite happy in the main to work from home especially if they have young families which many do- it suits them just as well as it does non managers . When the execs start talking about coming back to the office that’s where you need to decide if that company is for you

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648941#Comment_122648941

Not fulfilling your potential professionally.

I enjoy work, i always have, and i have loads of interests outside of it, not least my family. We are in the position now that we can afford for my wife not to work so our kids have one of us with them all the time which for me is something worth working for.

No need to pity me at all, all is great!

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122649010#Comment_122649010

only thats not entirely accurate, you need a certain amount of money to have a nice life (your definition of a nice life is personal to you), id agree that the amounts over and above that just allow you to indulge in more expensive hobbies or holidays and doesnt make as much of a difference but you need that base amount first.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122649060#Comment_122649060

That doesn't mean i wont maximise my earning potential, it means i have enough perspective to know that money isnt the source of happiness. I get that this is the internet and someone needs to see themselves as the victor of each and every interaction…. :)

and it is you are or you're not your ;)

HurlingBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122648295#Comment_122648295

There is doubt that you work hard for your salary\benefits in the US MNCs and are very much a hamster on a wheel for them. These companies have very aggressive review systems and you are expected to work outside regular hours where necessary. While the rewards are good this is at a price i.e less family time, less time for other activities, poorer work\life balance. They do keep employees motivated with career paths, goals and proper management engagement. Poor managers won't last long in these companies. No coasting is tolerated in these companies and they will manage you out if you are not performing. The question for each individual is whether the extra 10-15k or whatever it might be is worth it if you have a young family and want to spend more time not working. A 39 week would be a rarity in these companies.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122649650#Comment_122649650

relax? chill with the passive aggression, i was just responding to you and i disagree with you. You can maximise you earning potential and your professional care while still understanding that money alone won't make you happy. I choose life too.

reactadabtc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122646974#Comment_122646974

I'm 6 years in on 70K as an engineer WFH for an irish company. The FAANG money inrigues me, but I don't have the interest into going throiugh the interview process and working a hard job. My current job is chill, I'll probably get a few promotions over the next 5 years and be on 6 figures then. i'm happy with an easy life.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122649799#Comment_122649799

Well what with you being such an experienced poster on here you clearly know it all… wonder who you were before the last banning? I cant be held responsible for your lack of comprehension now can I?

Best of luck now ;)

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122649827#Comment_122649827

Everyone's situation is different. I prefer to work 50 hours a week for high pay and retire at 55 rather than work 40 hours a week for low pay and retire at 67.

Amazon bringing its employees back to the office got me thinking about remote work / work from home more generally. Is it possible to work remotely for an Irish company, or a European company, from another country outside of Europe? Legally, I mean, without all the hassle of the company having to agree to set up a subsidiary company in the country you want to work from (I think that's how it works)? I read threads on Reddit from time to time in which people talk about how they work for an American company from somewhere like Mexico or Colombia, but 99% of them, if not all of them, live in the country illegally (well, maybe not illegally, but on a tourist visa that they haven't renewed) and pretend to be in the US, or wherever it is their company is and just hope not to get caught. The tech savy ones go to extraordinary lengths not to get caught and do all kinds of things with VPNs and modems. But it must be awful to be constantly on edge and worried about getting caught. And I don't know what they do about paying tax. It seems to me that it's almost impossible to work remotely from a country outside of Europe unless you work as a freelancer. Even digital nomad visas are complicated. Companies insist that you work to Irish time, they often have meetings in the morning that you'd have to be getting up at 3 in the morning where you are to be able to attend, and then there's the problem that they'd probably want to pay you less if you're living in a country with a low cost of living. So I suppose the only way to do it is to do what the guys on Reddit do or, as I say, to work as a freelancer. I don't know how those fellas on Reddit are ever going to settle, however, if they're constantly going from country to country on tourist visas.