Amazon WFH Policy

CramCycle · 21-09-2024 10:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122641261#Comment_122641261

Sorry I misunderstood your post, I would agree with this one. Alas my position and those under me can't work from home 100% but they can do some. If someone said being in the office all the time is best for them, that is what they get (have 2 like that) and almost everyone else is 3/2 split but some weeks it is 2.5/2.5, some weeks it is 4/1. So long as the job is done.

Flinty997 · 21-09-2024 11:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122641261#Comment_122641261

I know one person whose office went 100% WFH, they quit and got a job working 100% in the office, because they preferred that.

Where I am some have chosen 100% in the office. Guess the people in Amazon won't get the option. Well other than not going back.

BlueSkyDreams · 22-09-2024 01:24AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640905#Comment_122640905

I can tell you that if 4 out of 10 staff watched movies in our office, it would most certainly be noticed; but sure, give it a go if you think nobody is looking.

Your constant talk of "if" productivity was digitally monitored is irelevant, because it is not digitally monitored.

Your one correct point is that if you are ordered back to the office, you have no choice.

Flinty997 · 22-09-2024 02:25AM

That they can create these stats means it is tracked. That's it's not being acted on its what I've been saying all along. If you think seeing someone in the office is a meaningful substitute your mistaken.

There are also statistics that show the majority of RTO mandates are primarily intended to get staff to leave.

What's interesting is that studies indicate it's usually the senior people and/or most experienced, skilled who leave.

You'll have to join the dots on that one.

Soc_Alt · 22-09-2024 09:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636222#Comment_122636222

Its Already started . Traffic on the motorways is getting very heavy.

I'm not sure companies are using this ploy to get people actually into the office or to make people decide to leave the company based on the policy.

I'm not talking about Small to medium companies.

I'm talking about corporate giants who plan to make global decisions.

Soc_Alt · 22-09-2024 09:28AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122634598#Comment_122634598

I don't believe this.

People already said that there was no change of mandatory returning to office yet here we are.

22-09-2024 09:49AM

I have heard of employers insisting on 100% office attendance and trying to soften the blow by saying "We have no issue if you want to log on from home during the evenings or at weekends."

The only catch being that they don't pay overtime….

22-09-2024 12:04PM

Its going to be blended working too many advantages to the employer in having some WFH.

one of mine her employers have given up a whole office block because of blended WFH, it's got more monitored though and they must attent 2 days a week and thr employer uses the employees security pass to check times they are in the office.

Its fair and transparent system.

Dohnjoe · 22-09-2024 12:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122640770#Comment_122640770

Where I work, which is very hybrid and flexible, with thousands of employees, we run semi-annual polls which consistently show that the clear majority want to maintain the flexible and hybrid approach.

However the many managers and directors I've talked to with few exceptions have either a preference to go to the office or feel pressured to be there.

Not demonising management, but if we took a straw poll among employees and a separate poll among managers regarding office attendance - I guarantee two different results.

the14thwarrior · 22-09-2024 01:40PM

i work for a company that gives no options, except during covid and as soon as it was over back to office.

as a manager some of my employees could be trusted completely but most i could not trust. Sad but true.

know people that work from home and

clean house, put dinner on, pick up kids from school
go swimming four days a week (and pretend they are on a short lunch)
get a bit of gardening in, laundry on
catch up on movies, etc
turn computer on and have a hour breakfast, check work, have shower, check work etc.
"start" work at 7.30 but really………..
the list is endless.

as a manager, you allow one, you must allow all

if you allow them before they have children, you must continue it. becomes a hybrid child minding etc. no doubt. seen it, heard it, cant do two jobs.

the idea that people can force companies who pay them to allow them to work from home is entitled and stupid.

to find a company that works for you, and allows it, go for it

ironically i worked from home during covid, put in more hours , ate dinner whilst doing work, started earlier and later and generally they got a lot out of me. too much……. it was an emergency but if I had to do it, Id put better boundaries into place

22-09-2024 02:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122642294#Comment_122642294

So ironically, you yourself admit to working harder, longer and being more productive for your company when you were WFH, but don't trust anyone else to do the same.

From reading the above, it's the controlling micro manager style that people don't want to work with, and will look to leave companies for. .

Full disclosure, I'm guilty of "putting the dinner on" while working from home. It takes me about 30 seconds to walk to the fridge, take out a chicken, and another 30 seconds unwrap it, and put it in the oven. (Please let me know how much I should reimburse my employer for).

(eta) Also, where I work the "you allow one, you must allow all" rule does not apply. WFH is awarded based on the type of work being done, not the person doing it. If you're assigned to a role or a unit with the type of work that can't be done from home,(e.g. public facing) you won't be granted WFH, even if Mary in Accounts can WFH 3 days a week.

Dohnjoe · 22-09-2024 03:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122642294#Comment_122642294

Odd.

Large company, several thousand people, everyone had to work fully from home for 2 years. Aggregate KPI's showed no decrease in productivity. Management decided to keep the policy requesting employees come into office only one day per week (optional, not mandatory).

the14thwarrior · 22-09-2024 03:43PM

YEAH, I'm a manager and i worked hard. and some of my staff would do the same.

but no way would i trust the other half. there is nothing ironic about it. i have to manage a lot of staff, you don't get the fact that one rule for one, is one rule for all. think a bunch of snow flakes amid a lot of solid snowmen

simply no………and as a manager can't run the service with half people at home

and i had a different job working from home.

oh in the office i get to work and stay longer, and see who leaves early and who doesn't micro management? try working a week in the public service and get jobs done. don't worry, i tend to let staff go early when i can as a treat, on bank hols etc. but the amount of shi£ that goes on WFH is insane.

22-09-2024 04:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122642617#Comment_122642617

In my over 30 years as a civil servant, and a large team, I find that staff who are over-managed, or micro-managed, are those most likely to feel un-motivated and under-appreciated at work, and the least inclined to give their best to their work.

Maybe a different approach might improve service delivery. A little more carrot and a lot less stick.

BlueSkyDreams · 22-09-2024 04:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122641224#Comment_122641224

Some companies have measurable goals and metrics, many do not.

And even if a team does have metrics & was hitting their numbers, a lot of managers still wouldnt want their staff watching netflix; maybe yours does, good for you. But many do not.

Most businesses would want their staff to hit higher numbers with the time they are being paid to work.

People tend to cite their own working example and apply the logic to all businesses, forgetting that all businesses do not operate in the same way.

the14thwarrior · 22-09-2024 04:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122642680#Comment_122642680

hey good for you. sounds like you are doing a fantastic job.

also sounds like you think you know me and my staff. which you don't. so don't offer me management advice you know nothing about.

fact is if you find a job that allows WFH and you want that, or can manage that go for it.

until then, WFH is a great benefit to some people, but by no means should be viewed as an entitlement.

Flinty997 · 22-09-2024 04:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122642294#Comment_122642294

There's always that person who you can never get to do anything. But thats the same in the office. WFH didn't invent them. They are outliers though. At least where I've worked.

But on the flip side there's always reliable people who get work done when ever you ask them, that's regardless of whether they are in the office or at home.

Doesn't really matter though they can just drag everyone back for no reason and nothing you can do about it. We still have some senior people who want WFH.

But we've lost quite a bit of flexibility, and I can see people pulling back on their own flexibility.

22-09-2024 06:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122642807#Comment_122642807

No, I don't know you, but I am familiar with people who share your mindset. You also assumed I had no public sector or service delivery experience, when I have decades worth.

I and everyone on my team still WFH. No one - at any level - is expected to WFO more than 2 days per week, and there is flexibility around that. If anything, since WFH was introduced both staff morale and service delivery has improved. We had to adapt fast during lockdown and new practices were developed and have been built upon since. We continue to be highly productive and if we weren't, I can assure you we'd soon hear about it.

And where did I say WFH was an entitlement? It is not. It does not form any part of the CS contract of employment - either pre or post pandemic. I actually mentioned specifically that WFH is role dependant.

I feel genuinely sorry for any staff in any workplace, either public or private sector, who have to work under managers who clock watch, micro-manage or who feel the only way to manage staff is to keep them on-site, because otherwise they can't be trusted.

I would run out of a place with that kind of culture. I certainly wouldn't be going the extra mile for them.

23-09-2024 09:03AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122642294#Comment_122642294

While all of the above may be true the most important issue trying to provide child care whilst working which should not be happening except in an emergency.

it's not your job to sort it out as a manager you job to make sure people do there job by supporting them to their job.

if they are not doing there job start disciplinary procedures that's it, you appear to be way over involved in you job.

Cyrus · 23-09-2024 09:10AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122642807#Comment_122642807

I wouldnt take management advice from someone who says they turned down a promotion (assume to management) as they didnt want the hassle.

Core learnings from this thread:

Managers have no idea what they are doing

People are way less productive in the office because …. disruptions

They can be 100% more productive while minding their kids, making their dinner, doing their chores

etc etc.

With all the time back and all the chores getting done and savings in childcare is it any wonder they are afraid of their lives to go back to the office?

23-09-2024 09:25AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122644585#Comment_122644585

Honey, I've been management for a looong time.

But you keep up with the little passive aggressive digs! They show everyone who you really are. 😉

Cyrus · 23-09-2024 09:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122644627#Comment_122644627

accuse me of passive aggressive and then call me honey 🤣

I'm only relaying what you have said yourself, you 'declined' a promotion did you not?

23-09-2024 09:31AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122644585#Comment_122644585

I am all for supporting people and for flexibility but nobody should be supervising children while WFH while you are working it's the same as being in the office you not available to supervise children.

Thats the sort of issue that put employers off providing WFH.

Cyrus · 23-09-2024 09:34AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122644640#Comment_122644640

totally agree.

AyeGer · 23-09-2024 09:36AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122631248#Comment_122631248

I’d guess that awkwardness is based on resentment from the office based staff rather than diminished social skills from the WFH staff.

DeanAustin · 23-09-2024 09:40AM

The thing I find kinda depressing about this debate is that pretty much everyone I speak to says they are more productive working wherever suits them best. I've yet to hear someone say "I'm more productive at home but prefer being in the office" or vice versa. Opinions on this are pretty much universally self-serving.

However, my view on it is that the genie is out of the bottle and it's not worth the time, effort and disruption it causes to force people back into the office 5 days unless you have very clear and conclusive evidence that it's beneficial. And I've yet to see anything conclusive one way or the other.

RedXIV · 23-09-2024 09:50AM

Lets be honest though, the resistance to this is giving off the same sort of vibes that we hear of happening when unions fought to get weekends off, and upper management screamed and shouted that it was a massive dent in productivity.

But the reality is that it makes for better society. Working continues to evolve with new technologies to further enhance productivity and people who rail against WFH may very well be the people 30, 40 years ago who railed against computers coming into offices as it's different and would enable people to now play solitaire at their desk instead of work.

The trick here, as said before, is getting the process in place to enable performance tracking remotely. Employees want flexibility, and are searching for it actively. Companies that invest in the ability to offer this are going to get first pick of a lot of candidates.

Those fighting WFH are starting to smell a little of "we have worked this way for the last 20 years, why change?!" but change is how you evolve and those that don't change inevitably eventually collapse.

Yes people who WFH can go and put the washing out or go and pick up kids from school, but ultimately, if the work is getting done, that's what should be important. These "perks" again are no difference from when computers arrived and people all of a sudden could access the internet and you can be certain that folks do access the internet in work for leisure but you can be certain that overall, it improved productivity with the ability to send email, look up information, interconnected systems etc. People are more effective, even with access to things management are afraid of.

clickser · 23-09-2024 09:52AM

Some utterly laughable weak inputs by managers here. God help your staff.

You lads are rowing against the tide. The days of corporate overlords is coming to an end.

"I'm so great I worked so hard when I was WFH, but I don't trust my staff to do the same". Such puke inducing corporate bootlicking bs.

Blazer · 23-09-2024 10:02AM

We had a sales exec dipshit in last week talking about coming onsite to do their job and how they wanted everyone onsite. Sure why you're travelling home you can call into a customer on the way home and make a sales pitch.

I was just looking at them thinking what a bunch of dinosaurs. Within 10 years big companies won't even have sales execs since it will all be done via AI.

You'll simply have an AI with guidelines on sales prices, your customer AI will contact yours and other hardware companies with a quote for 3000 laptops, 500 storage servers, 500 AI servers and whichever one gives the best price will get the deal. All done within seconds. No need to be paying millions out sales execs, or in bonuses.

And I work in AI..you'll still need developers, intent programmers, prompt engineering etc but the top level sales execs..they're gone but they don't see it yet. They only see the bottom feeders but you can be sure that the CEO's etc all see this in their heads already. Hell with how fast technology is changing it could be 5 years.

More and more of these massive companies will become more automated.. execs and senior management are severely at risk and they know it. Its one of the reasons they're mandating RTO as well.

to force people to leave and reduce separation costs
to keep themselves in jobs..

Sono · 23-09-2024 10:05AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122644711#Comment_122644711

Spot on, some of the posts here are unbelievable. It actually says a lot more about the managers posting here than their employees.

I am glad I do not work for the14thwarrior that is for sure!

Amazon WFH Policy

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