N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [open to traffic]

I think charging anything to use a P&R car park is a mistake. The recurring costs of running a car park with no tolling infrastructure are negligible, so there isn’t a whole lot to be covered, and any deterrent can have a significant effect on uptake.

• Financial: Even €1 a day adds up over a 46-week work year. It’s €230 after tax but if your marginal rate is 42% that’s approx €460 a year out of your salary when USC and PRSI are factored in.
• Convenience: Sure, we should all be chill Zen monks during rush hour, but nobody wants to queue at a barrier to get in or out of a car park, nor do they want to stand in the rain at a pay+display machine.

And any loss in revenue for Ireland Inc from not charging for the P of P&R has to be offset against the reduction in costs associated with having fewer private vehicles on our streets.

FWIW, if I was responsible for transport, I wouldn’t even be charging for the R of P&R but I know that is a bridge too far for many.

The problem with P&R, and likely the reason they've been put on the long-finger is because the second someone gets into a car they're less likely to use public transport. While all of us who drive already think that a P&R is great, the top priority is retaining the people who already use public transport: trying to get them to not buy a car.

That's again why I favour putting money into Tivoli or Little Island rather than North Esk. At both, station upgrades can make the station valuable for both P&R and non-car users.

One place where I really strongly favour a P&R though is Blarney. And a small station in Blackpool. But these will probably only start when the passing loop in Kent is done.

A P&R at Ballincollig or Glanmire would see bus passengers stuck in traffic behind cars unfortunately, so we desperately need bus priority to get full value out of them. The one at black ash works because the bus usually isn't badly held up too badly by traffic.

Anyway just keeping it on-topic, I don't see P&R as being a high priority for Dunkettle/North Esk

On the tunnel , I don't think the tunnel is the problem , it's the multiple merges just before the tunnel , ( heading south ..) pre summer In the mornings I the was going from bumper to bumper traffic on the approach to traffic starting to stretch out a bit in the tunnel , unless of course there was a crash on the n40 ,

The dunkettle interchange is the biggest traffic interchange in cork , that it was built without any thought to public transport is a bit bonkers,

So a ,city centre, ballincolig, CUH,UCC,CIT, quality rail service will make the midleton ,cobh and mallow services far more useful ,

Kind of need an effective south ring bus service too , basically dunkettle to bandon road , fast frequent,and connected to as many other transport routes as possible..

214 runs from the station to CUH these days, but 214 is not a frequent, or particularly punctual, service.

Corrected my post. I meant the 214 goes halfway to Bandon, not the 208. The route of the 214 is absolutely ridiculous. Busconnects will help with that, if the whingers would go away.

IMO the merge lane from little island , just before the tunnel , is far too long , it's a 60kph speed limit there , and then the actual merge point is just before a blind downhill turn , straight into the tunnel ,

Basically it merges where people automatically slow down ,

Had a nice gentleman in a BMW going from N25W to tunnel the other day in the overtaking lane of the slip barrel down onto the hatching, continue onwards until the lane physically disappears where it merges into the tunnel, then force his way in. Absolute clown.

Tbh, I think the Southern Orbital Distributor and Northern Orbital Distributor should be the main priorities (although in an ideal world they’d all be priorities!). Get local city traffic off the N40 and out of the tunnel. As discussed before, it’s probably causing the main capacity issues and defeats the purpose of the N40. It can’t be a bypass and distributor. However, I’d take a different approach to them than the city council’s plans - instead I’d use new roads.

The Southern Orbital Distributor could be:

Mahon Link Road - Jacob’s Island Road - new bridge across the river to Rochestown Road - Monastery Road - new road through Garryduff/Moneygurney to Ballinimlagh Road - new road to Elm Hill - Airport Road - new road to Spur Hill - new road to Bandon Road

This is mostly greenfield and provides access for those in the city commuting from suburb to suburb. They could implement heavy restrictions that prevent HGV from using it. The existing local roads could be used for bus and cyclist priority to hit the densest areas. The junctions would have to be laid out in such a way that it can’t be used as an extension of the N40, so heavy good vehicles won’t use it. I think it would be complicated but could work. Junctions could be:

Blackrock/Mahon (at R852)

Rochestown/Passage West (at R610)

Maryborough/Mount Oval (at Garryduff Rd)

Douglas (via R609)

Donnybrook/Carrigaline (at Ballinimlagh Rd/vis Donnybrook Hill & Ballinrea Road)

Grange/Frankfield (at Elm Hill/via Cooney’s Lane)

Airport/City Centre (via N27)

Leghanamore/Togher/Wilton (via Spur Hill/Sarsfield Road)

Bishopstown (via Bandon Rd or Waterfall Rd)

That way, anyone living on the southside can get to the other parts of the southside without using the N40 or local roads. This should be accompanied by the closing of N40 on ramps within the city to encourage people to use the new road. Specifically: Mahon Westbound ramp, Rochestown on ramp, Douglas Westbound ramp

Thoughts?

Without junction closures, I just can’t see a distributor road (whether it be how I laid one out, or one following the R610, R609 and R851) being used. You’re right that it would cause uproar, but I think it’ll have to happen. The N40 as it is is just way too convenient. The benefit of the one I laid out I think is that it, while goes around the southside rather than through it like the N40, it has a regional (or high capacity) connecting it to each neighbourhood. Other than the central neighbourhoods (like Ballinlough, Ballintemple, Turner’s Cross, etc), you wouldn’t need to drive through the neighbourhoods to get between them. For example, going from Mahon Point to Douglas, you’d drive over to Rochestown Road via the new bridge and down the R610. Not a major difference between driving onto the N40 and to Bloomfield. If you’re going from Dunnes in Bishopstown to Donnybrook, you wouldn’t have to get onto the N40 and navigate Kinsale Road Roundabout and go through Grange. If you’re going from Maryborough to Wilton, you don’t need to go onto the N40 and add to the Bloomfield Interchange traffic. It’s not a perfect fix by any stretch of the imagination, but it takes existing traffic and moves it to somewhere that doesn’t impact national traffic bypassing town.

They’d also need to ensure that the new road doesn’t just facilitate urban sprawl. It’s close enough to the built up city that it shouldn’t, but there would need to be strict rules preventing development south of it. This would also help prevent it from being a trip generator for trips that don’t already exist

The trouble is, there was already an enormous amount of opposition to the bridge you mention. The Mangala Woods bridge it was to be called, people were going apoplectic at the thought of losing the "one last bit of undisturbed wilderness".

Yep but even though it's very unlikely I'd still see mass transit as more a realistic Southside project than the outer Southern Orbital road. I'd actually love if someone had a plan for mass transit to Carrigaline, but I don't think anyone is working towards it at all. It's buses only for the foreseeable future.

Does anyone know what the current night works on the new bridge into Little Island are/were for? It seems like they're ripping up the surface and resurfacing at night?

Why can't the tunnel operator just close one bore at a time and provide a two way flow in the other. The infrastructure and signage to facilitate such an operation is in place and it's a common practice in other tunnels.

Routing traffic through the city centre is a very environmentally unfriendly option. It can result traffic congestion, added journey times plus increased air and noise pollution within the city.

I am not sure if the word rumour is relevant but even if you drive, especially from the Mahon side to the Dunkettle side on a dry day, you will usually see small puddles on both sides of the bore at the deepest part of it.

Has anyone experience of the tunnel in Limerick (N18) it's the same type of construction. How often is it closed.

On one of the few times I used the route one bore was closed and the other had a contraflow in operation.