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French man accused of drugging his wife and inviting men to rape her

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,021 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Only if you want to target the safest drivers instead of the ones who kill more people. Which would be a waste of public money. But do go ahead with your campaign. I have zero objection, other than the waste of public funds.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Lol.

    "Stop harassing us. Women drivers as a group aren't responsible for all the damage so you can't tar us with all the same brush. We're the safest so leave us alone. It's only a minority of us who cause accidents"

    "BTW, all men are responsible for the behaviour of pervert rapists though"

    You didn't take too long to change your tune when your faulty logic was applied to something you didn't like



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,021 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Here's some more of her testimony, describing how her world collapsed around her, she left her home with nothing, to live with her children, "like a child leaving home for the first time, with just a couple of suitcases for all her possessions.

    image.png image.png

    In the second one, she talks about past episodes where she began to fear that she had Alzheimers, she was finding bleach on her clothes and other stuff she had no memory of. She asked her husband "jokingly" "You wouldn't be drugging me or something?" and he began to cry, because it was such a horrible thing to accuse him of.

    She no longer dared to drive and even taking the train when she went to see her grandchildren she was always afraid of missing the stop (in Paris, which is a major stop - the train goes on north to Lille)

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,866 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    If it was just women who were responsible for 99% of car crashes etc, you may have somewhat of a point but it's actually men who cause more crashes, fatal and otherwise.

    But just say it was women, on the roads they were responsible for 99% of deaths. First of all women would have been banned from driving a long time ago but if not, of course a campaign to lesson that would be wanted and needed. Why wouldn't it? So isn't it the same with rape and sexual assaults. The perpetrators are nearly always men. Shouldn't we have a campaign to stop it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,866 ✭✭✭Musicrules




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    There are posts actually NOT outright condemning this ? FFS.

    There are salient facts here:

    The husband is a vile low excuse for a man and will die in jail. As hopefully will every single rapist.

    Gisele Pelicot is one of the bravest women I have seen in quite some time - she courageously removed her anonymity so those who did this can be named, bless her and may she know some moments of peace - like her daughter.

    It is far from "all" men who do this, or would even think of it - but please do not excuse these monsters by saying "well he went to a website where men interesting in raping women without their knowledge visited, it's not ordinary men". It IS ordinary men, that is the point! The fact they have sought out similar in a location they were known to meet is irrelevant - we're not talking a handful here, there is talk of 70 plus rapists.

    I read a post earlier saying something akin to "bring back kinkshaming" - 100% agreed; stop giving every paraphilia an excuse and a label. This is not a "kink" - it is the vilest form of rape and should be shouted from the roof tops how vile it is.

    Look at the recent spate of gang rapes in holiday resorts - three lads assault a drunk passed out girl, they send a message saying "come get free sex" (vile) - they have five mates there in minutes.

    It is far from ALL men but it is men and we need to address this in the wider consideration of combatting VAWG. If that is education then yes bring it on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    What do you think there are more of - women drivers who could benefit from additional training or driving lessons, or perverted men wannabe rapists?

    I'll remind you that it was you who brought you the driver "analogy". Thought it was some kind of great point until it was used in a context you don't like.

    "What are you men bastards going to say about your responsibility arising from a case involving perverts in France. You shouldn't complain and you shouldn't say 'not all men' "

    "What are you women going to say about the bad women drivers who need more lessons. You shouldn't complain and you shouldn't say 'not all women' "



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,021 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Here she says that she only learned in May 2023 that in 2010 he had got a fine for filming under women's skirts. She had no idea. She says if she'd been informed of that antecedent at the time, she might have thought to question whether he was involved. She says "I could have gained ten years of my life if only I'd known that."

    image.png

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,981 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    I read a post earlier saying something akin to "bring back kinkshaming" - 100% agreed; stop giving every paraphilia an excuse and a label. This is not a "kink" - it is the vilest form of rape and should be shouted from the roof tops how vile it is.

    does this actually happen, every paraphilia gets an excuse? if so, i've not seen it - i've not seen non-consensual sexual acts being excused by anyone except criminals.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,021 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Do you have anything to say about Gisele P's testimony or are you going to keep on with this fallacy that women drivers are the ones who need "educating". It's a bit off topic but FYI the data says the opposite:

    Behind the Wheel, Women Are Safer Drivers Than Men

    Compared with women, male drivers of cars and vans were involved in twice as many fatal accidents.

    So can we now get back to the actual subject here?

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    If you are the one that thinks an ordinary man is one who frequents perverted chatrooms trying to find women to rape, then may I suggest you widen your social circle to meet new people as "ordinary" is generally relative to your own benchmark of who you meet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,110 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Ok you go first. What should you be publicly shamed for?

    Obviously a horrific story. Shocking that nobody blew the whistle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,866 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    It was a great analogy. You thinking you have some form of gotcha would be hilarious if this wasn't such a serious topic. Male drivers cause more fatal crashes, your attempt has been crushed, get over it.

    To try to stop the high level of crashes on our roads, numerous ad campaigns have been used on TV and education in schools has improved. Is this what we need to do in regards to the rape and sexual assault epidemic? We need to educate young boys in schools about what is right and wrong behaviour towards women. Some will be offended by this but I'd rather some men be offended than letting the status quo continue. If it even saves 1 woman from being being raped then surely it's worth it.

    Whatever way we go about it, we need to stand together on this. It's men and women against the men who rape and sexually assault others.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,110 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    That's the thing though. Deviance isn't only restricted to weird looking people who give you the 'no feeling' on first meeting them. They are spread through society. The ones who get caught tend to be the reckless ones or have learning disabilities.

    My wife worked with violent offenders and it's pretty clear that the ones in prison are heavily biased towards the most stupid ones. The more clever ones tend to blend in better and are less likely to be caught.

    Not sure what it says about society as a whole. There's more deviance out there than you'd expect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,021 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    How exactly would we know that though? This case shows that, while clearly not all men are on those sites, plenty of "ordinary" men are. And for women, that is terrifying.

    And to be blunt, the furious reaction by a number of male posters here, with constant misrepresentation of what I and others have said, plus a complete refusal to see the situation from a women's point of view, and a smattering of sexist nonsense about women drivers (nonsense because factually inaccurate) make it seem like maybe the problem is bigger than "just a few".

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    I think you are mixing up the difficulty in identifying a deviant, with continuing to identify them ordinary after you know they are a deviant

    I mean, do you think those men should have been charged at all if they were just ordinary men doing their ordinary thing that ordinary men do?

    I certainly wouldn't describe either their seeking out and frequenting of those groups or doing what they did as something an ordinary person would do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    You could perhaps respond to the question I've asked a couple of times?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,021 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Fast moving thread, I don't know what question that is. And you certainly have not replied to mine, which I asked ages ago: in practice, how are women to tell which ordinary seeming men are the perverts, and how should that impossibility of knowing affect their general approach to men if at all?

    IOW would women be well-advised to be suspicious of all men, just in case, or should they continue to give men the benefit of the doubt, even if that necessarily leads to a certain number of them being abused in the way this woman has been?

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,866 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    It actually makes it more scary. Why are these men getting offended on behalf of rapists? When something serious happens in other areas, there's an outcry and calls for something to be done. Drink driving is an example I used but things like high amounts of suicides, we all call for better mental health services. Youth crime, we call for higher levels of punishment and more guards. Why can't we call for increased action against the serious issue of rape and sexual assaults committed against women?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,110 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I wasn't commenting on that at all. I should think the answer is obvious.

    I was commenting on identifying deviants. They don't all present as weirdos or get caught. The clever ones can blend in and present as normal.

    Not sure why I'm explaining this again. My post was clear enough.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,021 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Absolutely. A number of men on here are literally lying about what's been said: NOBODY has said "all men are abusers". So why are they so angry at any attempt to do anything other than always dismiss it as a tiny unimportant problem with no wider significance? Any attempt at taking the measure of the problem causes absolute fury - and that doesn't happen with other social problems.

    Imagine if we couldn't set out to evaluate the true number of drug users in society without people screaming that this was someone with an agenda to accuse everyone of being a junkie? Yet that's the equivalent of what happens every single time we try to talk about male violence against women.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    And how are women supposed to identify what other women are perverts or potential murderers?

    Perhaps you should also treat all the women you meet with suspicion, just in case.

    Ultimately, it's up to you how you want to live your life. Treat whoever you want with whatever suspicion you want.

    The question was whether you thought there were more women who could benefit from additional driving lessons or training, or more men seeking out pervert chatrooms looking to rape unconscious women? The context was that you appeared to diminish the point about women drivers as being not important and a waste of money due to low numbers of them exhibiting bad driving or causing crashes etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    May I remind you that you started a (deliberately shit-stirring) thread with the title "Men - any opinions? (Women are obviously free to comment too)"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,021 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    But almost zero women are perverts or murderers, so the whole basis of your world view is inaccurate. It is men who are the VAST majority of violent criminals and sexual perverts.

    So why would you want to start this campaign by targeting women?? A woman is FAR safer in a single sex area than when men are present. For instance

    So if she gets her facts wrong and starts thinking she's in danger from women, she will be increasing her risk of assault, not decreasing it.

    ”I enjoy cigars, whisky and facing down totalitarians, so am I really Winston Churchill?” (JK Rowling)



  • Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    how are you so sure that the posters you refer to are male?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,224 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    Offended on behalf of rapists !?!

    WTF are you on about??? Im not offended on bhalf of rapists, im disgusted by them!

    You are projecting the sick males that rape women, onto men on here dont !!!

    And then you get offended when men on here fight back at your massive overstep…

    There are BAD MEN , and there are BAD WOMEN..

    theres also lots of GOOD MEN and GOOD WOMEN also…..

    You try tar men on here because of some weirdos in France…… WOW…

    247469249_2017413731748359_7675802031635703098_n.jpg

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Do you think that the men who did this were "ordinary"?

    I'm on to Christy Moore as we speak to work on a re-write:

    I'm an ordinary man, nothing special nothing grand,

    I've had to work for everything I own

    I frequent pervert websites a lot

    And see how many unconscious victims to rape I got

    Enough to keep me happy in my home

    It still need a bit of work I think

    It's nonsense to refer to the perpetrators as "ordinary". In many ways it diminishes their actions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,866 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Exactly and that's why this issue will continue. Until there's an admittance that this is not some outlier and sexual assault is a regular occurrence that women have to endure, then nothing will change. It's not all men, that's the major point. We all need the men against these rapists to assist in stopping them. Something has to be done.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,866 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Why are you lying? I never once projected men who rape onto men on here or anywhere.

    The target is the sickos who rape, are you opposed to that? Would you welcome increasing education in schools to help reduce the levels of sexual assault committed against women?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Discrimination is good its how people live their lives, dont live here, dont socialize there, cross the road if you see X

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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