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Ticketmaster and dynamic pricing

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 791 ✭✭✭marilynrr


    Everyone will just log on when it opens then so that doesn't solve anything.

    I also only found out that your position is the queue was random recently, previously I would always log on as soon as the waiting room opened.

    It's not like it took any effort, log on, make a cup of tea etc, do something else in the meantime. You know ticket sales aren't starting until they're starting so it's not like you have to be glued to the screen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,347 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    What if the tickets are the same price from all vendors? €250 € 400 and 500 for example? This would be defined by the artist. Granted there might be fee differences to the artist and the consumer.

    People are going to lose out when demand exceeds supply - and queuing is required in almost all high demand events - it's only when you get to the top of the queue you can see what tickets are left. For example, your queuing position means that there are only 400 and 500 euro tickets left when you get to the top of the queue. How long should you be given to make a decision to buy (bearing in mind others are queuing also)

    A well functioning market definition depends on where you sit within that market.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,347 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    This isn't gonna solve too many problems either - especially if you give people more time to complete their transaction. There will always be situations where this information won't be correct and people will no doubt complain.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    One thing which I think could at least be considered in terms of regulation is the council should put in place a policy that for gigs to be licensed, all intended gigs need to be announced, or tickets put on sale, at the same time.

    If you paid 400 quid for a ticket for 'one of the only two Irish gigs oasis will ever play again' (say - that's just for dramatic effect) and they decide to cash in by announcing two more shows - those extra licences could be denied?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,154 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    I don't have an issue really with dynamic pricing because if you do, what you are really saying is that an artist should not be allowed choose the price of their art. That's something I don't agree with.

    What I think needs to be improved is information to the buyer. If artists want their tickets to be fully market priced then they need to provide information on the state of the market throughout the sale. This includes the amount of unsold tickets and the current market price, updated at least every minute.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 484 ✭✭NiceFella


    Are people going to pay 400 euro for gigs on a regular basis? I highly highly doubt that. These gigs had mania and histeria written all over them. As I have said, there is no atmosphere at events full of rich people. I don't care what you say. People will see it as a money grab that really isn't worth it.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    AFAIK harvey norman aren't allowed advertise 'latest samsung 50 inch TV for €400' and then tell you when you get to the till that they put the price up because they were popular; but that's effectively what we're allowing ticketmaster to do with dynamic pricing.

    dynamic pricing is effectively an auction in that sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,347 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    I am speaking about large, in demand stadium type gigs where people will pay 400+ for a ticket.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 7,474 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Aris


    IMO people conflate different issues and assign blame randomly. The process stinks to high heavens and everyone in this chain contributes to it.

    On the ticket prices itself (regular and dynamic) there are 2 key factors: the artist and the promoter. The artist says "I need such and such money to come play at your city". Then the promoter says "it's gonna cost that much money to do the show and I want to make that much profit out of it" so they start calculating prices etc. In this part I think it is greed from the artist and the promoter. The whole dynamic pricing (as previously said) is because there are people that really want to go to the gig that can afford and are willing to pay the dynamic price. Thus the promoter can keep the majority of the tickets at a regular price (which is not cheap to begin with) and get the extra money from the dynamic prices. IMO so far Ticketmaster isn't to blame for the dynamic prices.

    Two issues that TM are to blame.

    First the extortionate fees. 10 euro minimum fee on each big concert ticket for what? What exactly do they handle? They are just a facilitator and do almost nothing. For a gig like Oasis, TM must have gotten 1.6 million euro (160.000 tickets x 10 euro) for doing nothing. Someone in another thread has said that this money are split between TM, promoter and artist - not sure if it is correct but I'll take their word for it. In my opinion, this is the one that governments etc need to go hard on TM.

    The second (more minor) issue is that you only find the exact pricing only when you are ready to buy the ticket. I'm from Greece and old enough to remember before Ticketmaster where the promoters would advertise the prices before the tickets went on sale. Obviously dynamic pricing wasn't a thing back then but the promoter would clearly state if there was an early bird or that the first few tickets were cheaper etc. And the fees were reasonable. Not sure if anything can be done in this area.

    2025 gigs: Selofan, Alison Moyet, Wardruna, Gavin Friday, Orla Gartland, The Courettes, Scissor Sisters, Nine Inch Nails, Stipe, The Rocky Horror Show, Rhiannon Giddens, New Purple Celebration, Nova Twins



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭Fanirish


    but that won’t work. Promoters often hold extra dates and then deciding on how well the sales are going then announce the second night.
    promoters need the flexibility cause what if the first night is actually a slower seller. They decide not to do the second night as demand ain’t there. They lose millions as a result



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    how do we tackle dynamic pricing then? dynamic pricing is openly exploiting a scarcity, driving up prices because you know there's only two gigs on offer - but that's a scarcity which the promoters probably well know they might completely undermine by announcing more gigs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,585 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    The only way to tackle it is to not buy the tickets en masse. It's the same with flights or hotel rooms, don't buy the tickets and then eventually the prices comes down.

    But you know what the problem with that is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭crl84


    There were 3 ticket vendors for the Oasis gigs in the UK.
    I assume that there were no issues over there so?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,902 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    The queue position on big events isnt random.

    There is an algorithm, certain accounts are given priority, these are called Fire accounts and there is a market for the buying and selling of these.

    Other accounts are sent to the back of the queue and the rest are randomised.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,585 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    That hasn't been proven at all. I've seen it before and it is supported only by confirmation bias.

    And before you claim it, a reddit thread isn't proof.

    People claimed it for Taylor Swift and it was shown to be a BS theory.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 484 ✭✭NiceFella


    The vast majority of concert goers only know of ticket master such is there hold on the industry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭boredatwork82


    The problem isn't Ticketmaster or Dynamic Pricing. The problem is that people were stupid enough to pay the high prices. I love Oasis but couldn't justify the price of the tickets.

    People are idiots and the fact that this concerts sold out at stupid prices proves that there is no cost of living crisis in this country. It's just people want to save their money for luxuries and expect society /government to pay for the basics for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 107 ✭✭Gunner5


    See it really depends and I think it was the CEO of live nation ( I cant find the article at the min) who said this... People see these things as a once in a lifetime event and will buy

    I think this grabbed a lot of non regular gig going people who will do the 1 a year . Given I think the age profile of a typical Oasis fan I assume a lot of this gig going stopped for a lot once raising a family came along and now it's something they are willing to go all out and spend to do it as a once off.

    I am a regular gig/festival goer ( up to 30/40 a year) and as much as I'd have loved to go to this gig i financially couldnt justify it for one single concert.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,347 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    I am glad we agree then .

    And no ..I won't be rereading your comments so you can retract that bxxxsxxx suggestion ,, to paraphrase your own comment above to me .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,431 ✭✭✭ShagNastii


    I'm in two minds about dynamic pricing. I fully agreed that the Oasis situation was a complete sh*tshow. But I lived in London for a year and used to attend countless theatre shows and their pricing was often dynamic-y.

    I never really felt THAT put out by it. They were priced by the seat and more often than not I'd go for the cheap seats. At the weekends you'd pay a premium. The week of, you could get caught for a massive rise or drop in tickets. All very transparent. It would remind you of airline tickets. Everyone knows the story.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 484 ✭✭NiceFella


    I can't see that being the norm much longer, perhaps Taylor Swift might get that with kids but adults in their right mind surely won't pay that. As the dust settles people can see how ludicrous the pricing is.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    there's an obvious parallel to be drawn with airline tickets - but with a large caveat that if you don't want to fly to genoa on friday because the tickets are too expensive, you can likely try the friday after. with gig tickets, it's not as if you can choose to see oasis in croker one week later.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,585 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    You could go to another music gig though.

    I know it's a flippant thought but it's kind of the same thing.

    To use your example, Genoa this Friday and Genoa next Friday could be wildly different places with different things on.

    Or if there is no flight for the rest of the year to Genoa.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 7,474 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Aris


    I don't think the two are directly comparable and I wouldn't call your theatre example dynamic-y. You are correct that prices are different depending on weekday/weekend and where you would sit in the theatre. But they don't fluctuate depending on demand.

    It's similar for venues like National Concert Hall: I just bought a ticket for a concert and selected the most expensive band that came to 32 euro - so i can be in a "better" seat. That price has been standard throughout the sale. If I thought this was too expensive, I could have selected a different "worse" seat for 20 or 25 euro. Again, no fluctuation on prices... plus I got to select my seat (naturally I understand that selecting your seats for a big gig at Croke Park isn't practical)

    2025 gigs: Selofan, Alison Moyet, Wardruna, Gavin Friday, Orla Gartland, The Courettes, Scissor Sisters, Nine Inch Nails, Stipe, The Rocky Horror Show, Rhiannon Giddens, New Purple Celebration, Nova Twins



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,511 ✭✭✭Stillill42


    I'm not paying €425 to go to Genoa. No way. Fecking Ticketmaster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,750 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    An artist paints a picture, they decide to sell it for 10,000 euro. Some pays it. They got the price they wanted.

    Where is the dynamic pricing? You opening paragraph makes no sense.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    In that context, the closest analogy would be selling art at auction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,154 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    If a picture artist makes a painting they should be allowed to set the price and sell to the highest bidder. Fans of the artist have no right to complain that they were priced out of owning a piece themselves.

    The same goes for concerts. The artist should be free to set the entry price to their shows and charge as mush as people are willing to pay.

    Once everyone is informed, why shouldn't they have that right?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    The issue the UK consumer authority has seems to get to that issue - people were told that the tickets were about 80 or 90 quid and by the time they were presented with the option to buy, they were four times the price with only few minutes to decide - that's the issue there, they were misinformed to begin with.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,585 ✭✭✭✭Exclamation Marc


    Tickets were advertised here as "From €86". I wouldn't say they were misinformed. Tickets were indeed from that price.

    Its like when Ryanair advertise their sales and say "Flights as low as €19.99" but you might find the flight you want is €60. Or when you go into a shop that has sales "up to 50%", you might find the top you want is only 20% off.

    The wording is clear enough that not all the tickets are €86. Now perhaps there is a push to be more clear what the price range is, but I wouldn't say there is anything misleading as the word "From" makes it quite clear.



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