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Transport Aircraft

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,623 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    That’s ok, I can still look at your post and laugh at its desperation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭sully2010


    I was patiently awaiting the news of Negative_G's impending arrest



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 389 ✭✭vswr


    their RF R&D section is massive, in Ireland….

    this research is subsidised by the Irish Gov through tax breaks, and they get to put it in various military and civil products around the world…without Ireland getting a sniff of profits..

    These elements should definitely count towards GDP contribution calculation, if Ireland were ever to look at joining NATO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 427 ✭✭highpitcheric


    lets just not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,525 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Join?

    I don't think we should either, but the longer governments of this State fail to take the defence and security obligations of being non-aligned seriously, the more likely we'll end up being bounced into it by a serious geopolitical destabilisation and being left with no other options to protect the nation.

    On the other point, we don't use GDP for anything in this Country. It is a false metric compared to other Countries

    We use GNI*, as a marker of domestic economic performance, with the skewed elements that come with FDI stripped out.

    GNI* for 2023 in Ireland was €291 billion.

    2% of that would be €5.82 billion. A pie in the sky figure of course, but actually a figure that looks fair for how far behind defence and security is in this Country.

    If 5.82 billion at 2023 prices was guaranteed for 10 years, the State could have a fit for purpose defence force, cyber protection apparatus and a civilian state security and intelligence agency of the highest standard. Lets call it LoA4!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 427 ✭✭highpitcheric


    Always the 2%.

    Our best defences are politics and location.

    Loa2 and eu seem fine.

    All nato daydreams should be held off until November.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,525 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    What about the EU?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 427 ✭✭highpitcheric


    Attacking a non-eu Ireland would be one thing.

    Attacking Ireland, an eu member is another.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,525 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Is it? Why?

    Successive EU treaties have only been passed in this State because of a succession of exemptions, opt-outs, codices, protocols, statements and any other political expendient you can think of, to these provisions.

    And so, by our own doing, they don't really apply to us. We are guaranteed NOTHING.

    And yes, we have recently joined several PESCO-EDA projects as participants rather than observers, but again, these are very specific and defined.

    And so, I think this undescribed tacit belief among many in Ireland that "sure we'd be grand, the Yanks and the French and even the Brits would have our back" must end.

    In the World of today, we can't say what will face us at the end of this year, let alone in 5 of 10 years.

    How confident would you feel in the cohesion of the EU and NATO in a scenario of; Trump in the White House, Le Pen in the Elyseé, Alice Weidel and the AfD in a German federal coalition, Meloni, Wilders, Orban, Nehammer all in various aspects of power?

    Cos while I think its very unlikely they will all be in power coincidentally, or even ever, the possibility doesn't make me feel too confident at all about our defence and security position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 427 ✭✭highpitcheric


    even if all that were to be as you say, it still stands that the consequences of hurting ireland as an eu member carry far more consequences than if we werent eu members.

    Eu states obviously dont attack each other, so thats most of the continent ruled out in 1 swipe of the pen.

    Next up is practically all other countries bar maybe Rus, US, China.

    Odds are all those random countries interdepend with eu in economic, diplomatic realms. And Ireland can weaponize that. So the payoff of screwing with us must be greater than any mischief we can cause the attacker from within the EU parliament and council. (Ive two countries in mind, both will never win).

    This combined with our tricky location makes for a very peaceful place. As I said, our geography and our politics are our best defence.

    Thereafter the issue of mutual defence comes into it. Further complications for any aggressor.

    Is EU mutual defence really something worth finding out about?

    Not for any reason in Ireland Id think.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 389 ✭✭vswr


    When China and Russia get their ports on Western Africa sometime in the next 5 years…. the location argument goes out the window and the Atlantic is fair game…

    Irish waters become a safe haven for those navies to navigate as Ireland can do zero about it…

    EU mutual defence has that much oomf, Sweden and Finland didn't have to join NATO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 427 ✭✭highpitcheric


    EU mutual defence has that much oomf, nato founder member Denmark recently joined.

    The Atlantic is international water as it is. West Africa is also quite a distance, having a port in Ghana or wherever doesn't really change much in respect to us.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,623 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    But what about the jaysus transport aircraft??????



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Well at the moment IRL 280 seams to be the default donkey aircraft and dont forget the single Casa 295 transport that is ordered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 389 ✭✭vswr


    Not for their reactive defence benefit though, they were being left out of the strategic plans, it was going to happen eventually, Ukraine was the catalyst to speed it up…

    A country with such a vast coastline, their opt out clause came back to bite them.

    From an EU defence perspective, they only had input at civilian level and were in a position where any EU North Sea and Baltic operations would go ahead without their input (not necessarily direct, or any, aggression to anyone) but any proactive defence measures, they wouldn't have been included.

    So they were in a position where they could have potential foreign units patrolling in/near their waters and airspace on operations they weren't included in.

    From a reactive standpoint, there is still too much bureaucracy in the EU to have a reactive force like a NATO article 5 call.

    Hence why Sweden and Finland went NATO.

    When Russia/China get ports in the Atlantic, Irish EEZ waters have potential to heat up South China sea style…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 427 ✭✭highpitcheric


    Youll need something better than 'if China gets ports in Ghana 5 years from now' if you want to sell a massive political change from whats working well enough.

    Its a no from me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 389 ✭✭vswr


    well yes, you're leaving out the part where I mentioned the threat to our EEZ, which China has already expressed interest in for potential oil and mineral deposit investigation. Which is also one of the least protected EEZ's on the planet…

    But hey, you work away paraphrasing for effect.

    Hopefully there's never a need to join NATO, but the current EU red tape doesn't exactly posture solid security either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 427 ✭✭highpitcheric


    Chinas largest export destination would tariff slap them if they tried any such funny business.

    But this topic should maybe not be continued here. As its the wrong thread. Current affairs has a place for this.

    I'd rather not frustrate users who want to know about the jaysus transport aircraft. Fair point California.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Random question, When then Cessna replacement tenders were returned back in 2017 and the PC12 won only 2 companys had submitted Tenders. Does anyone know what the other aircraft was?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭Negative_G


    Cessna offered the Caravan.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Looking at the article below about current helicopter prices when it comes to the state replacing the AW139 fleet with Super Mediums the two departments in charge of the money will be crying.

    https://euro-sd.com/2024/08/major-news/39963/game-could-be-up-for-nmh/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,685 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    143(ISH) million euros for 6 airbus h145 ,

    Thing is ,they're not going to get any cheaper with time.. even if the department of finance decided to send our existing helicopters for a full refurb ,that will also have become extraordinarily expensive..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Same issue with any of the purchases for the DF, the sticker shock means the finance departments (and the Cabinet) run and hide rather than just straight up own the need to spend that kind of money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    If there was another EU nation buying a super medium size aircraft we could maybe piggyback on there order to get unit price down.

    The only big european orders seam to be for the H145M but it is probably to small for what the defence forces want.

    Maybe if they presented PCP style pricing it might not scare the departments as much..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,623 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    I see you are still here, you ok hun????? No legal action or being dragged from your bed in the middle of the night by the local plods?????



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭roadmaster




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 389 ✭✭vswr


    The course will be an invaluable training resource for operating in the high altitudes of the Wicklow mountains.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,525 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Yeah, 2028 at the earliest, though they are due to be supplemented with a couple of heavier aircraft in the meantime.

    Its not the first tie-up with the US Air Force. I remember a few years back we had people working with them on the integration of the Grey Wolf into the 20th Air Force, for the support of its 3 No. ICBM Missile Wings



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭sparky42


    it’s basically the same group we are working with now, just maybe a more formal understanding.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    So with us going down the Direct route for getting equipment will Giorgia Meloni be getting a call for 10 AW149s or could we be suprised with maybe the french offering one of there products?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭sparky42


    I would guess it’s whoever offers the best time/cost, but at least if we actually do buy direct once it opens the door for future buys.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,525 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I note, in a tangentially related policy change, the Tánaiste has instructed the DoD to reject any and all tenders for military items submitted from Israel, to be rejected.

    There goes Jonny's dream of an armada of F-35 I Adirs anyway!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭sparky42


    not a huge surprise, I see the reasoning is for the ICJ ruling on their occupation, though I wonder if it’s in part a response to the reported overflight of arms? Or just making certain that if we are opening the savings and actually buying stuff that at least the usual suspects can’t say we are buying from Israel?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,525 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    All of the above no doubt.

    Especially as we enter an election season here, where foreign policy will be perhaps more important than it has been for a while in Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Actually…I'm pretty down to earth on what I would like for the new Air and Space Force 18 FA50's and a half dozen Super Tucanos should do the trick. Possibly substitute the Saab for the FA50'S.... over to the politicians after the election!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Ironcially on saturday my colleague sent me a picture from the offical usaf media report on the usaf/ air corps programme that i had posted and in the pictures of the irish 139 there is stickers in the cockpit saying No Hoist operations, No Cargo operations, and something about faults.

    Time for new helicopters asap



  • Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭mupper2




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,623 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    A month later and I still manage to laugh at this on an almost daily basis!!!! 😝😝😝



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    Thats enough Internet for you. Brush your teeth and go straight to bed.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,529 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    [MOD]

    @Dohvolle , @California Dreamer

    Guys, the joke has worn thin. There is no need to be continuing it and it's turning into a personal and public spat which the rest of us don't need to be reading. If you dislike each other, fine. Leave the rest of the world out of it.

    [/MOD]



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,124 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    New Garda H145 chopper (though not yet complete) has been seen at the factory in Donauworth. Serial 287 is worn.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Does the 287 number mean it will be here before the Transport Casa?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,525 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Well, obviously.

    But this business of issuing registry numbers randomly through the sequence is messy.

    It should still be done like it used to be, ie, the PC12s 280-283, C295s 290-292, additional helicopters and replacement fleet 30x, 31x, 32x serialised by type.

    To my mind Garda aircraft shouldn't even be on the military register, but I accept for the time being that the ASU isn't going to be moved away from the Air Corps, even though it should be operated by a civilian contractor, with Garda operations staff on board. Wouldn't it be the perfect bed fellow for a shared facility at Weston?

    In the absence of that, the new Garda fleet should be 301-303 and subsequent new Air Corps types pushed out to 31x etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,124 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    No idea - 286 hasn't been used yet so may be held for the third C295.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    There looking to build a private air ambulance base in mayo. I can think of a few safety and insurance issues here.

    Also considering 112 and the possabile replacement of 112 with a private hse contractor i can see a few other problems.

    Not sure what is going on with the current HEMS tender but i wonder is the hse crewing situation having an effect since the consultants pointed out the AP is not enoght and it should be a Emergency ED Doctor on board as best practice.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2024/0921/1471235-air-ambulance-base-mayo/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,136 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    For the umpteenth time in recent years countries are about to scamble to evacuate their citizens from another conflict zone - this time Lebanon.

    Who are the Irish calling this time? The French most likely yet again.

    I pity the poor chosen one in the DFA who has to make the beg call. I mean, it must be degrading. Not a single heavy lift aircraft to fly out and bring home whoever needs to be brought home.

    A country swimming in money that just can't be arsed and they know it.

    Irish citizens left to the kindness of others.

    I hope whoever receives the call says "no" and makes it public as to why.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Any Irish Citzen still there does not deserve help. The DFA have been telling people to leave for weeks so thats on the people not the state.

    As for the troops that is a UN Mission with 10k personal the UN Nations will work together



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 389 ✭✭vswr


    I agree with the sentiment, but, the fatal flaw in the argument is, Ireland paid money to countries who supported previous airlifts, so not exactly charity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    An we will have 2 C17s in a few weeks in casement



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭sparky42


    I did have that feeling when I saw the article in the Indo yesterday about a family that flew out in the last couple of weeks for a funeral now saying the government should “do something”…

    Anyone with even the slightest cop on knew this was coming, why would you choose to go there?



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