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World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) Files

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,438 ✭✭✭✭Birneybau




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 854 ✭✭✭greyday


    It is worth reading Richard Dawkins on transgenderism, he is one of the few that makes any sense on the issue and rips a hole in the lies that come from transgender advocates, he also has an explanation that actually looks far more likely than what the advocates would try and force you to accept.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,740 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Sad fact is, people like him would love it if kids did kill themselves, so he can be proven right. some even might do that due to this kind of rhetoric. We know that a lot of these kids are vulnerable to suggestion due to having asd, it's part of the reason why they are susceptible to thinking they might be trans in the first place. Statements claiming that kids have no choice but to commit suicide if they can't have these drugs are irresponsible and downright dangerous and I'd suggest that the "ashes" he's talking about would be better placed at his door in that case. Shame on him



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,729 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    I briefly alluded to his suicide claims earlier. With the UK government exposing his lies his public life should be left in tatters such that he's never seen or heard from ever again. Bizarre he should just carry on as normal as if nothing happened.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭aero2k


    Thanks to volchitsa for that suicide report and greyday for the Dawkins stuff - very interesting.

    On suicide, I've heard it described as a permanent solution to a temporary problem. It seems that the same could be argued for much of the treatment being advocated given the high rate of desistance. People and their families are really being let down by the lack of informed consent, disinformation and outright lies.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭aero2k


    It's often presented as a battle between (extreme) right and left, when really it's about right and wrong.

    It is a demonstration of how upside down the world has become when we are relying on the tories in setting up the Cass Review and banning puberty blockers, and those creationist Republicans in the US in passing laws to protect women's sports, to bring a bit of sanity to the whole thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 854 ✭✭✭greyday


    For a time it seemed most films I switched on to watch on Netflix had a trans character, way more over represented than the actual numbers, it seemed it had spread to politicians, film makers, educators and many more, all somehow captured by an ideology that was harming far more children than it was helping, just for clarity, I do believe there are trans children out there but I dont for a second believe that mutiliating them will rewire their brains from which I believe the issue stems from.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,729 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    UK Labour MP Nadia Whittome stands up parliment and says to Keir Starmer parents of trans children are 'terrified' by the goverments ban on puberty blockers. Oh so the parents of trans youth are experts on pubertys blocker are they?

    Starmer was having none of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,080 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Oh noes! What will the Munchie (munchausen by proxy) moms do now for the clout and attention they crave?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 854 ✭✭✭greyday


    Its not all moms, something to bear in mind, those with genuine Trans kids are rightly terrified of what comes in time for them and their child.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭aero2k


    Just rounding back to the begining of the thread. Mia Hughes was dismissed as an anti-trans activist. Have a look at this and see for yourself - to me she comes across as a journalist who has got her hands on some information that is in the public interest to desiminate. She makes some interesting comparisons between the medical treatment of trans patients and notable historical medical scandals. Her arguments are compelling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,080 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Never lett it be forgotten that António Egas Moniz, won a Nobel Prize for medicine for inventing the infamous frontal lobotomy…. also let it be rememered that the inventor of 'gender theory' John Money was a groomer and child abuser.

    From his Wiki:

    In 1966, a botched circumcision left eight-month-old Reimer without a penis. Money persuaded the baby's parents that sex reassignment surgery would be in Reimer's best interest. At the age of 22 months, Reimer underwent an orchiectomy,
    in which his testicles were surgically removed. He was reassigned to beraised as female and his name changed from Bruce to Brenda. Money further recommended hormone treatment, to which the parents agreed. Money then recommended a surgical procedure to create an artificial
    vagina, which the parents refused. Money published a number of papers reporting the reassignment as successful. David Reimer was raised under the "optimum gender rearing model" which was the common model for sex and gender socialization/medicalization for intersex youth. The model was heavily criticized for being sexist, and for assigning an arbitrary gender binary.[2]

    According to John Colapinto's
    biography of David Reimer, starting when Reimer and his twin Brian were six years old, Money showed the brothers pornography and forced the two to rehearse sexual acts. Money would order David to get down on all
    fours and Brian was forced to "come up behind [him] and place his crotch
    against [his] buttocks". Money also forced Reimer, in another sexual position, to have his "legs spread" with Brian on top. On "at least one occasion" Money took a photograph of the two children performing these
    acts.

    These kinds of people haven't gone away you know… in fact, not only have they not gone away, these kinds of people are STILL driving policy regards gender and medicine. You only have to look at the groups WPATH sought advice from, one being a group catering to castration fetishists. Why would a professional body be consulting with fetishists I wonder?

    So when people tell you to 'trust the science' and that these are the 'guidlines of a professional expert body', take a good hard look at these 'experts'.

    Post edited by conorhal on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,792 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Ah, but I would question the very existence of Trans kids, for what is a trans child, if not a child with "issues" that has been told (by adults) who believe in Gender-ideolog that they may be born into the wrong body!

    … hence they should be transitioned, firstly when still a child by a name/pronoun change, then drugs to stop puberty, followed by surgery to become their "true" gender!

    WPATH files & Dr Hilary Cass say NO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 854 ✭✭✭greyday


    Before it was mainstream I knew a person who was trans, he was just considered odd at the time but from a young age acted and dressed as a Girl, there was no coercion at this time from Doctors or parents, I take the view he was wired wrong and lived as his wiring dictated so I am somewhat sympathetic to those that seem genuinely trans/wired differently to their biological sex.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,792 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Being wired differently is fine, as its within the parameters of human nature & biology. Effeminate boys in dresses or butch tomboy girls have occured all the time throughout history & that's cool 👍 Being trans is another thing altogether, as it requires you to believe in an ideology (based not on nature or biology), but rather on a non provable belief system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 854 ✭✭✭greyday


    Fair enough, I may have fallen into the trap by using the word trans as its a common term to use in this age, its a pity there is no language we can agree on to describe people like this that does not infringe on the binary of biology.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,740 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Sounds like that person was an old school "transsexual", who do still exist and always have. Nowadays though the concept has been overtaken by ideologues who insist that men with a fetish (formerly known as transvestites) are actually women, and pretty much anyone who doesnt exactly conform to gender stereotypes, be included under the same umbrella, or else. I'm sure your friend wasn't going around threatening to punch women if they weren't allowed into the toilets or having a fit about not being able to be on the girls sports team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 854 ✭✭✭greyday


    Nothing of the sort from him, just odd is all we thought but he continued and eventually moved to UK, strangely enough he was left to do as he pleased and as far as I am aware didn't get any hassle, his poor mother did go through a terrible time though, this was back when being gay was still illegal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,729 ✭✭✭AllForIt




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,346 ✭✭✭carveone


    I wonder are parents actually terrified or is it really that companies like AbbVie, TAP, etc are incensed at how less suffering might affect their sales. Lupron, aside from being incredibly dangerous, is also incredibly expensive. It's 10s of 1000s for an injection regime which leads inevitably into a hormone regime (something to do with bone density if you don't).

    Sounds profitable. Perhaps some sociopath in one of these companies figured out that framing a manufactured medical issue as a civil rights issue would result in an expanding market of poor souls locked into a mandatory medical subscription for the rest of their lives. I can't understand how people like this live with themselves*.

    Mia Hugues is a very good speaker and very easy to listen to, although I personally find a lot of this stuff a tough watch. I think I've ended up with some form of PTSD! I found it startling when she said a JK Rowling tweet started it all for her. Wow, that women should get a Nobel prize or something. It's so extraordinary how much of an effect she's had over the last few years.

    Mia mentioned a number of historical medical scandals. An article in pittparents.com blog (which is a great read if you want to be permanently depressed) brought up the history of eugenics ending up in the "Doctors Trial" in Nuremburg in 1947. To quote: "Medical doctors in the most technically and ethically advanced society on earth were imprisoned or hanged for performing experimental procedures on human subjects without their informed consent - consent that the docs knew they needed. Think about that".

    *(South Park had companies like this down decades ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxXOe6SG1qw)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭aero2k


    @carveone JK Rowling is quite the hero. She has used her position of wealth and fame as a sort of shield to protect others with similar views who don't have the resources to fight the very vocal opposition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭Enduro


    The High Court in the UK has ruled that the puberty blockers ban imposed by the last government is lawful. Wes Streeting, the new health secretary (previously an education officer of Stonewall) intends to keep the ban in place. This removes a potential legal obstacle to that.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Hmm - the exact opposite of what Shoog had predicted.

    Funny that.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    You mean Jo Maugham, the tax lawyer, had no idea what he was talking about? I'm shocked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,740 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Around 1000 doctors have signed an open letter raising concerns about the BMA stance of disregarding the Cass review and stating that they are "extremely disappointed" with their actions. Again, pretty much the opposite of what a certain poster was predicting.

    Organisers of the letter to the BMA leadership say it has the support of about 1,000 doctors, more than half of whom are BMA members.

    They say 23 former or current clinical leaders at Royal Colleges are among the supporters.

    The letter says the Cass Review was right to conclude there was so little evidence about the “safety and efficacy” of puberty blockers that they should only be prescribed under research conditions.

    It goes on to argue that the BMA was “going against the principles of evidence-based medicine and against ethical practice”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 854 ✭✭✭greyday


    I doubt it TBH, I know she says she is but I think that might be another mistruth from her.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,392 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Northern Ireland has brought in the ban on puberty blockers that's in England.

    Some of Greens and PBP are now campaigning against it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭aero2k


    Just in the interests of balance, Jesse Singal has a substack post that analyses a critique of the CASS review by a group of Yale academics. It's detailed but fair enough. It's an interesting read - it doesn't in any way undermine the important findings of the review, but points out a few areas where they could have done better. On the other hand, Singal exposes the underhand way many academics operate nowadays, one of them even perjuring herself.

    I am unable to post a link but if you Google "Jesse Singal Substack" it comes up on the first page.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 854 ✭✭✭greyday


    https://jessesingal.substack.com/p/researchers-found-puberty-blockersThereisa

    There is a trend with extreme trans advocates to distort the truth and in a lot of cases to outright lie about findings.

    It does not even seem they are willing to help genuine trans kids.



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