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11 Generator stuck in Dublin port for over a year because they are to heavy for M50

  • 26-08-2024 09:04PM
    #1
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,942 ✭✭✭


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/generators-to-combat-power-shortages-are-stuck-at-dublin-port-as-they-are-too-heavy-for-m50/a532597380.html

    Read this yesterday, surprised it wasn't posted.

    Begs the question: "Is anybody actually managing/planning these kind of big infra projects"

    It's quite incredible. I dunno if the story has been sensationalised, but even still if it's factually correct, it's pretty bad news.

    More than €10m worth of generator engines meant to tackle the State’s electricity supply shortage have been stranded in Dublin Port for over a year as they are too heavy to transport on the M50 toll bridge.

    The machines were shipped to Ireland last summer by German manufacturer MAN Energy Solutions to be brought to two industrial estates in Dublin.

    However, after the 11 engines arrived in Dublin Port, it was discovered they were too hefty for transport across the M50, weighing in at 275pc more than the design load for the West-Link toll bridge.

    They have stayed in storage as engineers and local authorities try to work out how to safely bring them to their destination.

    Today's News in 90 seconds - 25th August 2024

    The engines were imported at a time of growing concern over the national grid and its ability to provide enough power at peak times and in winter.

    In June last year, M50 Concession Ltd — which runs the motorway — said it had “serious concerns” at the use of the road for transporting the enormous “abnormal indivisible loads”.

    They said they were ­worried over how seven bridges along the M50 would cope and especially the West-Link bridge, which crosses the Liffey.

    A letter to Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII) said “at this stage we reasonably believe that the proposed movement of the abnormal indivisible loads could cause damage” to the M50.

    Cars crossing the M50 toll plaza in Dublin. Photo: Getty

    A few days later, TII responded to say it shared those concerns about the proposal, which would have seen 13 separate trips carrying loads of 426 to 496 tonnes across the Liffey Valley.

    The engines were destined for Grange Castle and Profile Park industrial estates in Dublin, and would have provided more than 200MW of back-up electricity

    A letter said: “The [West-Link] bridge structures would never have been envisaged as being required to carry an abnormal load of 496 tonnes which is 275pc greater than the 180-tonne design load.”​

    Two evaluations by engineers suggested that use of the M50 would be safe if certain conditions were met. These included a full escort for the abnormal loads, speeds of no more than 15kmh, travelling along the centre of the road, and no other vehicles on the West-Link bridge during the crossing.

    However, TII and the motorway operators were unconvinced, and permission was not granted to use M50 for the transfer.

    The engines were destined for Grange Castle and Profile Park industrial estates in Dublin, and would have provided more than 200MW of back-up electricity.

    MAN Energy Solutions had planned to import 16 of the dual-fuel engines, with another reserve power plant proposed for Co Roscommon near Athlone.

    A spokesman said: “An alternative transport route is under review with the local authorities.”



«134

Comments

  • #2
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,127 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    This is a private company that was building (I'm guessing diesel/NG) peaker plants to capitalise on potential stress on the electricity grid and then didn't do its homework fully.

    Can't really give out about TII and M50 refusing permission for an overweight load if the consequence is damage to vital public infrastructure.

    As far as I can tell, grange castle is a Microsoft power plant. Ervia are behind Profile Park.



  • #3
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122547751#Comment_122547751

    Surely these devices could have been supplied partially disassembled so that they could have been transported.



  • #4
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    These aren't really a big infrastructure project, they are about as small as you can get for grid scale generators. They are pretty small generators compared to your typical big OCT gas generators in traditional power plants.

    If I'm to guess, they were hoping to get away with a cheap transport option given their relatively smaller size compared to typical power plant generators.



  • #5
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,033 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    image.png

    https://www.man-es.com/company/press-releases/press-details/2023/01/12/man-energy-solutions-to-supply-dual-fuel-engines-for-irish-power-plants

    SDCL to build 111 MW power plant in Dublin

    Powered by 6 × MAN 18V51/60DF engines, the power plant at Dublin's Grange Castle Business Park will feed a total of 111 MW of electrical energy into the Irish grid where it will act as a peak shaver to cover peak loads.

    Greener Ideas Limited to build two 100 MW power plants

    Greener Ideas Limited, a joint venture between Mountside Partners Limited and Bord Gáis Energy – a subsidiary of Centrica plc, a private Irish utility – is developing the other two power plants. Each will employ 5 × MAN 18V51/60DF engines to provide 100 MW of electrical energy to the grid as back-up with one plant in Profile Park in Dublin, and the other near Athlone, Co. Roscommon.

    https://www.man-es.com/docs/default-source/document-sync/man-51-60df-eng.pdf?sfvrsn=685c8034_3

    18 valve engines weigh 416.8 t / 457.6 t for High efficiency with two-stage turbocharging

    image.png

    They are dual fuel gas / liquid (biofuel) engines



  • #6
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,942 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    Sure sounds like a big project to me, and also major a issue.

    Hopefully no public money went into this.

    Sounds like the easiest solution is to buy a site at the port and build the plant there. (If being built there would satisfy the location requirements of where the power was being generated)

    Surely large equipment like this has been transported before (Powerstation transformers and what not)

    Strikes me a ship motor.

    Edit: Ironically it the railway passes close by, maybe a Schnabel car? (dimensions permitting)

    Edit2: 9 metres tall… forget it.



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  • #7
    1123heavy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭1123heavy


    From the same maker of "The printer is too big" by any chance??



  • #8
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,618 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Any way to bring them in through Dun Laoghaire?



  • #9
    Del2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,184 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122548438#Comment_122548438

    It's not the manufacturers fault if the customer doesn't read the specs. T



  • #10
    con747
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,339 ✭✭✭con747


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122548147#Comment_122548147

    If they are 9 metres tall they wouldn't be going on any roads with overhead bridges, the highest is about 5.5 metres afaik. So no way could they have gone on the M50.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • #11
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,376 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The article above says that the West-Link bridge has a limit of 180-tonne design load!? Surely it would have more weight than that on it fairly regularly, possibly every day? Something doesn't add up with all this.



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  • #12
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,249 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122548585#Comment_122548585

    Probably a single vehicle design load limitation..….



  • #13
    McHardcore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 356 ✭✭McHardcore


    They did suggest in the article that they stop all other traffic other than the load and it’s convoy vehicles.

    But this should have been cleared with the road authorities before they bought the generators.



  • #14
    Field east
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭Field east


    experienced a similar situation a few years ago in the Sudan A BIG generator being transported on a road from Port Sudan the Khartoum. Involved driving over a bridge built by the Chinese spanning the Nile. The generator was parked beside the road for months because it was reckoned to be too heavy.
    solved by using a special trailer with ‘1000s’ of wheels to spread the load and by partially dismantling it.

    Could the Irish problem be sorted by installing them in a location that will not have to use a bridge to get there - asalready suggested. It may need the installation of a few adequately gauged wires to connect to the grid. The work being done in-house can be done at cost since the ESB would be doing it.

    How can the planners get such a basic situation SO WRONG?



  • #15
    sock.rocker*
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,176 ✭✭✭sock.rocker*


    http://www.irha.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/vehicle_weights__dimensions_limits.pdf

    Looks like regulations say roughly a meter for every 5 tonnes, so it would have to be a ~100m long system to spread that much weight.. Though over two lanes, 50m?



  • #16
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,376 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    If the thing is really 9m high (or even half of that!), it won't fit in the DPT or under any of the railway bridges. The only route away from the Port would be at Killester to the north or Lansdowne Road to south. Just getting to either of those locations (nevermind beyond them) would involve crossing a bridge and navigating residential streets and tight turns which wouldn't be possible with such a big load anyway.

    As I said already, something doesn't add up with all this.



  • #17
    KrisW1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,465 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    From the destination, I'm pretty sure this is a private venture, so I doubt any of our money is being wasted here. Actually, TII may charge them a fortune for the transportation on the road network. Even if there's no damage, TII will be making them pay for bridge inspections before and after transit.



  • #18
    KaneToad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,707 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Tie loads of helium balloons to them?



  • #19
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,942 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122548730#Comment_122548730

    According to the spec posted by @Capt'n Midnight, They are 4.7 metre's wide. maybe they could be put on their side, although I doubt it.

    It terms of disassembling them, you'd probably need the manufacturer to build a factory in the port, move them to the factory, disassemble them partially. Move them to their locations where two additional factories would be required to put them back together.

    I'm guessing MAN would absolve themselves of any responsibility in such a scenario.

    So the options are to either build the plant at the port or sell them on to someone else. Or possibly put them back on a ship and move them to another port where they can set up a power plant close by



  • #20
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,300 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    could they bring them by rail ?



  • #21
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,300 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122548856#Comment_122548856

    It depends on the contract . I’ve bought similar generators and the contract will state at which point they become the responsibility of the buyer. They often push off dock, but we insist on delivery to site



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  • #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122548665#Comment_122548665

    They could install in Dublin Port, or move it a few hundred meters across the Liffey to the Pigeon House.

    image.png


  • #23
    KrisW1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,465 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Putting them in the Port is no good when they’re supposed to be powering a datacentre on the other side of the city. The press release says they’ll be grid connected, which is true, but the primary purpose is to operate as an electricity supply to a datacentre at Grange Castle.

    Microsoft plans to construct a 170MW on-site power plant alongside 21 diesel generators in a bid to offset the high-energy demand from the facilities.

    […]

    In its application to the EPA, Microsoft is seeking permission to build a standby 170MW gas-fired power plant comprising 22 generators and 22 flue chimneys because its new data centers are “located in what is noted as a constrained area in terms of electrical grid capacity”.

    Source: Microsoft planning 170MW gas power plant at Dublin campus - DCD (datacenterdynamics.com)

    As I said, this is a private enterprise, and it’s their contractor’s fault for not checking on the route to the installation site before ordering the plant…



  • #24
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,300 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122548947#Comment_122548947

    there’s no capacity. There’s 2 new BESS sites down there along with some 2 new generator.

    They also don’t own the land and can’t connect it directly to the datacentre , they’d need a new traffic, which has about a 3 year lead time at the moment



  • #25
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,375 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Why not move them by sea to Moneypoint and connect to the grid and replace the coal plants or reduce their use?



  • #26
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,630 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122548447#Comment_122548447

    they'd still have to cross bridges, and fit under other bridges. What's the weight limit on the M50 viaduct at Cherrywood?



  • #27
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122548147#Comment_122548147

    19MW each, while a decent size for a Data Center, they are pretty small for grid sized generation. To put in context a typical natural gas generator in power plants are around 400MW.

    I'm guessing they thought that with the small size they could get away with less planning and cheaper transport then goes into building the bigger power plants.



  • #28
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,618 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122549693#Comment_122549693

    I don't think you would need to go near any bridges, but you'd need to go the wrong way up some streets and close a section of the M50 to remove the centre barriers so the truck can cross the road directly instead of going over the flyover.



  • #29
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,127 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122549693#Comment_122549693

    They'd get around that if they sent the load down the wrong side of the M50 and then used the emergency crossover. One has to presume the height isn't a problem, that it can be transported on its side. It would show a complete lack of planning if it was too tall.

    The bridge at Edmondstown remains an issue though. Most of the other bridges are short span where an abnormal load trailer would be longer and span across.

    They clearly have no easy or cheap solution, like putting them on a barge to Dun Laoghaire otherwise they wouldn't be sitting in port. I guess if they don't get a way of getting them to site, they'll sell them or MAN takes them back and they get something modular instead.



  • #30
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,410 ✭✭✭SeanW


    How is such equipment usually transported?

    https://u24.gov.ua/
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  • #31
    AlanG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭AlanG


    Amazing they hadn't planned for this before shipping the generators. That said 10 millino for 11 of them seems remarkably cheap given the price of steel alone. Perhps they bought a batch at a knock down price without a full plan for their use.



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