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Random Renewables Thread

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,604 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA


    Sort of makes this deal look like a bargain 😂

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,644 ✭✭✭deezell


    Maybe a good use for all the unwanted evs, park them up as backup battery. If you have a hybrid, the engine will kick in if you drain the battery too much. Even my 2018 hybrid lexus with a measly 1.1 kwh battery had the option of a power outlet when new, pity the original owner didn't specify it. My ageing generator went duff during the last three days of on/off power outages since Monday, I think the new E10 petrol has fkd all the seals in its carb.

    A PHEV with a decent battery and V to G, everything is covered.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,020 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Id get more battery energy with 16 280ah prismatics vs a PHEV battery, (15-16kWh) with case, bms, and cells coming in to under 2k( closer to 1500) PHEV are not the choice option for this scenario.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Bawnmore


    I've been following a few threads (Seplos/JKBMS/DIY Battery) on here with a rough plan to take this route. Is there a currently understood best route for this? E.g. a cost effective, straight forward combination of gear that people have had success with?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,002 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Bit of a "random one", and not strictly renewable, but does anyone know/have experience of how much a pilot light uses? It being summer the gas boiler hasn't been on since probably April for heating. I use the Eddi for hot water, and to the best of my knowledge I haven't used the hob in the kitchen (I was away for a good bit)

    The only thing I'm aware of is the pilot light on the boiler. Yet the meter reading is 20m^3 over the reading two months ago. Meter readings taken by me by the way, so I know the numbers are correct.

    So the only option I'm left with is a leak (which I'd assume I'd smell), or the pilot light.

    Looking online I'm seeing various answers.

    Just how much does the pilot light of a gas appliance consume exactly? – Energuide

    My own case seems to be about €6-7/month. Seems crazy to be burning 10m^3 a month for something not needed. Anyone else out there noticed this



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,299 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    Strange one. How old is your boiler? Generally only very old ones have pilot lights.

    Have you noticed similar usage over previous summers? My gas meter hasn't budged since April. Have you any GNI readings taken during the summer that you can cross reference against to see if the usage is constant or if you accidentally left a ring on the hob one day?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Can you shut off the gas feed to the boiler and then see if it stops going up for a day or two?

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,644 ✭✭✭deezell


    Is the hot water leaking away causing the boiler to fire intermittently to top up the cylinder at night.

    Has there been someone using the house while you were away.

    20 m³ is about 220 kwh, that's lot of heat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Yeah, it's an interesting one alright. I took a picture of the meter at 18:05 today and will take one tomorrow at 18:05 (or normalize it to 24 hrs if not exactly at 18:05) and see what the usage is for 24 hrs. Can't remember the heating being on in the gaff since April and it's only me, so no….shouldn't be any other usage that I can recall. Naturally I won't be using the heating/hob in the next 24 hrs to test.

    Old boiler which pre-dates me buying the place in 2013 so I'm figuring it's 15-17 years old. Ballpark. One with an electronic ignition would be better of course, but it was here when I got the gaff.

    Last summer I had the auld fella staying with me for a few days as I recall and he'd have the heating on - so can't compare.

    The 24 hr test should be interesting though. Had I known that the pilot was using so much, I'd have been turning off the gas more often. I tend not to cook much myself (or if I do more oven based which is electric) Seems to be a general "thing" though with pilot lights which people should be made aware of…..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Just gonna have to get a heat pump 😁

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    No smilie needed - I would actually, but €€€ a bit tight this year. So hoping the old boiler will struggle on for another year or two.

    I'm sure this is a familiar story with many. I don't have underfloor heating, and it would be a bit pricey to get on board with bigger rads etc, but I'd definitely be keen on getting rid of the gas completely. Even if it ended up costing me an extra €100-200 or so a year to heat the house, I'd be ok with that and chalk it down to the price of stopping burning stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Yeah it's definitely a big up front expense and makes it hard to justify when the boiler still works

    One thought, is there a strong smell of gas in the flue when the boiler is off? Might be a leak into the exhaust

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    I thought the same myself and got a ladder out and checked the exhaust earlier. Nothing. Least nothing I can tell.

    I'd be pretty sure it's the pilot light. I'll know the usage rate better when the 24 hrs are up, but I went and checked it just now, some 5.25hrs later and I see the following stats. (Naturally no heating or hob on)

    Starting Volume

    6052.515

    End Volume

    6052.593

    Time (hrs)

    5.25

    Usage (M^3)

    0.078

    Usage per day (m^3)

    0.356571

    Conversion factor

    11.375

    kWh/day

    4.056

    Rate per kWh

    €0.10

    Price per day

    €0.41

    Price per month (30 days)

    €12.33

    Should be easy enough to verify by killing the pilot light and performing the same tests. Might be useful to others out there though for the summer months to think about knocking off the pilot light. Not sure how many of us out there with old boilers, but I'm sure there's a few on the forums.

    Sure, it won't be funding a weekend in Vegas anytime soon, but still it's a pointless waste of energy and money if it turns out to be the pilot light as I suspect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I think Vanilla destroyed your table, but was able to spot the usage at 0.078m^3

    Definitely seems a bit steep for standby consumption, I guess the new ones are probably more efficient without pilot lights

    Still, it's a bit shocking when we're being told to turn off appliances at night to save energy and reduce fire risk.

    Then you've got this box downstairs which is constantly burning an apparently not insignificant amount of explosive and poisonous gas

    Makes you wonder if we've got our priorities right 🤔

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,644 ✭✭✭deezell


    Figures quoted elsewhere suggest 0.2 to 0.3 units per day, so 3 months would account for 20 m³ easily. I note that adjustment of the pilot is mentioned, someone mentions it being 'turned up too high. When was your boiler last serviced. A new condenser model could reduce your entire usage by 20%.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    To be fair, it's awhile since I had it serviced (3-4 years), but I don't notice the light being any bigger than it has been since I bought the house. That's not to say that there's no problem, only that I don't notice anything. My suspicion (which is similar to what others were noting online) is that these pilot lights are somewhat expensive to sustain. Only noticed it this summer as it's not usual that I'd have no heating and no HOB usage.

    I let it run overnight to get a bigger timeline - and the rate seems to be about the same as my last computation. Here it is as a bitmap rather than a table which seems to be problematic for somepeople.

    image.png

    Bit shocked that it's €12/month. That's not insignificant.

    I'm going to turn off the pilot light now and perform the same test. If the usage drops back to virtually nothing, then we can nearly definitively say it's pilot light usage.

    Post edited by bullit_dodger on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    After thinking about it some more….that does knock me for six. ~120kWh/month on a pilot light. If anyone else out there has similar setup, I'd encourage you to do the same. I'd be well clued in on the electrics side and I'd have a pretty good idea where most watts are going in the house, but the gas I never really thought about much as there's not much to monitor there. On the electrics I'd all manner of do-das (CT clamps, Bluetooth sensors, etc) …. but the gas it's just really the meter and that's it.

    it's only cause I knew I'd figured I'd zero usage that I noticed this when submitting a reading for Energia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,644 ✭✭✭deezell


    Well this headline could be preceded by, 'As punishment for increased Solar on the grid, feed in tariffs, heat pumps, Evs etc' Household electricity bills to rise by €100 to fund investment in network. (Indo)

    That tears the arse out of a large portion of any FIT you might be getting, and when they introduce Solar remote shutdown for oversupply, or force you to shutdown by using negative FIT, you'd begin to wonder about the point of even bothering with renewables. And that's before they introduce a new tax stream on the untaxed EV energy (excise) and the vehicles themselves (VRT).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,644 ✭✭✭deezell


    Personally it sounds like exaggerated Indo speculation, to sell subscriptions. By putting it out there though it makes it easier for the utility to push for it in the Budget say, it's no longer a surprise. This ignores completely the idea that the requirement for more infrastructure, plant and machinery surely relates to a proportional income increase over these new assets which should pay for them.

    Its akin to OLeary saying he needs 20% more planes to meet future demand, so he's going to levy current passengers to get them free.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,604 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA


    Happy to pay it if they will upgrade my MIC for free or at least do away with the silly nc7 and just let people export as much as they can.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,644 ✭✭✭deezell


    if I am one if the majority who have no Solar, no EV, and no Heatpump, I would be very unhappy to pay this levy, and if the government approves it as a new levy in the Budget, I can see the Left/rural independents making a huge political football out of it. It's one if these little things that can be levered to lose an election, a cash grab by the highest paid semi state organisation in the country leaving people short at Xmas etc.

    ESBN are a business, go to the money markets for new infrastructure, and charge those who require the services it provides, of which a large portion are just new domestic customers, but in developments that have far greater potential capacity demands. They need to do the sums on this, not just pick our pockets. €100 for SFA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 758 ✭✭✭Exiled Rebel


    It might reduce the sweet tasting FIT but it certainly doesn't tear the arse out of it.

    If anything it adds to the argument that I should possibly look to get a battery. If I can reduce my bill by a few hundred euro by installing a small 5kWh battery then the savings more than negate the additional charge.

    However without doing the maths I suspect it would take additional interventions such as reduced FIT rates or increased infrastructure charges to convince me a battery makes financial sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    The cost of additional generation is surely borne by all customers? For example if Eirgrid tenders a contract for standby generators then that's going to be reflected in network fees

    Similarly if they contract renewable generators to provide power to the grid then that is providing a service to all electricity customers, and thus the customer bears the cost of connecting them to the grid

    You can dislike it as much as you'd like, but it's the same system for grid upgrades regardless of fuel type

    As for your other points, unless someone is proposing it then it's little more than hyperbole

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    What budget? ESBN sets the rates, CRU decides if the rates are justified for the proposed upgrades. The involvement of government is exactly zero

    Politicians can do some grumbling, dispense a few hugs and grab an catchy sound bite or two. But they've no part in the decision making

    As for charging the customers who need it, well how's about for every new house built we add €1000 per year onto the electricity bill to pay for the additional generation needed for that house

    Sound about fair now?

    Also, Ryanair levying passengers to pay for new aircraft is literally how it works. Okay, they get a loan to buy the planes or lease them, and then all the passengers pay the costs of servicing the loan or lease payment

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,644 ✭✭✭deezell


    I've done the battery math on other fora many times, both for time shifting self generated (excess daytime) and grid (night rate). I was concerned about the naive claims for savings, which did not take account of charge/discharge losses, true lifespan capacity of the battery, true useful charge range of the battery, plus little things like how do you store excess daytime if your battery is already full from unused stored grid night rate. It boils down to the quantity and cost of shifted units you use, subtracted from the grid rate at the time of their use. As this differential gets ever smaller, and you multiply this unit saving by the batteries expected lifetime charge cycle capacity, you'll see see if it covers the purchase, installation and failure risk cost.

    Apparently there are 5 giant 300 ton oil burning ship engines stuck in port that are destined to power network generators to cover our increased demand for 'Always Available' electricity. They've already stuck aircraft engines on the supposedly closed peat fired stations' generators down the road from me, on the qt of course, it doesn't look 'green' if they're still burning older fossil fuel than the peat. The ship engines are too heavy to cross the M50 though. Maybe they should sail them up the Liffey, with wind. Maybe this what the levy is for, to stick a fossil fuel plaster on the gaping hole of renewable sources.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    I'm kind of OK with a single once off payments of say €100 to fund infrastructure upgrades. I don't like it, but I'm ok with it. Eirgrid are responsible for the network and if they need capital investment to future proof things in 5 years, that's fine. The alternative is that they go to the capital markets, secure funding and then have to spend €€€ supporting the interest and payback - which will then in turn mean higher electricity cost for consumers (me/you) in the longer term as they have to payback those loans. We're already one of the most expensive in Europe….

    As for eating into FIT and taking the gloss off it, that's not the case. If what they are proposing goes ahead you are going to be paying for this charge irrespective of if you have solar export (or not), so I'd rather be in the position of having some income rather than nothing. In either case I'm €100 down - so it's not really got anything to do with FIT if you know what I mean?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Would that be the peat plant they converted to biomass, the one they shut down and are converting to battery storage or the one they're demolishing?

    I assume the 5 giant ship engines stuck in port are actually the 6 gas turbines in North Wall power station which were intended to go there in the first place?

    I'm sure the whole not being able to cross the M50 thing was an amusing anecdote, but it's possible the fact that there is an existing very large power substation might have factored into the decision as well

    Also, there's a large connection to the national gas supply as well as an available local fuel storage if needed for an emergency

    So I'm sure you're glad Eirgrid didn't decide to float the turbines upriver somehow and build entirely new infrastructure at enormous expense

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,003 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I'm hoping a chunk of the additional fees goes to recruiting and training additional field engineers, and focusing on retaining the current ones (i.e. give them a salary competitive with the construction sector)

    ESBN's list of grid upgrades is starting to look longer than my list of fixup jobs around the house, and between house building, data centers, industry growth and EV charging hubs it's only getting longer

    They need more staff to clear the backlog of jobs as well as maintaining the expanded infrastructure

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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