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Reporting Social Welfare Fraud

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,001 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    If it doesn’t say Ltd. after the name it isn’t a limited company. They are obliged to submit a form 11 to revenue annually and pay income tax (unless their tax credits cover the whole tax liability, then they just submit the form 11). This process is entirely between them and revenue, it isn’t anyone else’s business.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭mulbot


    This can't be done - you either register as a sole trader or limited company. So how can you see they've made no tax returns if you don't know if they're (a) sole traders or (b) have a registered business as a limited company?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 suzieQue


    It’s definitely not a ltd company. I don’t think they are even registered as sole trader.

    So they can register business name but not be registered for tax? If they haven’t submitted anything in 9 years that must be the case.

    Not a sole trader, not a company they just registered the name. Anyway that’s probably all I can do for now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 suzieQue


    I think it’s a case of they sent off the rbn1 years ago and done nothing else



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,001 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    How are you seeing that they haven’t sent in form 11s every year? That information isn’t made public.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,268 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    You can register the company name and then handle taxes as a sole trader. From what I recall, businesses registered as a sole trader show Next Annual Return as —- because they do not file the same corporate tax return in September/October as other registered companies. They still have to file and pay taxes owed but its just processed differently and doesn't seem to show on CORE.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭mulbot


    They have to register as one of those. If they are a sole trader, you can't possibly know what they've filed. If they are a limited company, they have to file. Seems like you don't know which it is, you mention a company name, but that company name might be what they trade under, as in "purple flowers limited" trading as " beauty scents" or whatever. If you don't know the registered business name you won't find the returns. Anyway, the in's and outs are for them and the relevant bodies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭endofrainbow


    Department of Social Protection do carry out checks on suspected fraud. Anyone on a means tested payment can be reviewed at any time. There have been many crackdowns particularly on Disability and Carer's payments recently.

    DSP will never inform you of their outcome but it's entirely possible they are under investigation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,262 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    My in-laws are on JSA and DA, plus they operate a nixer.

    The nixer is not hidden, if you drive past the house, on a minor country road, there is a small sign advertising what they sell, and you can look over the hedge and see the activity.

    FIL claims JSA, never looks for work, is busy at the nixer during some months.

    MIL claims DA, but is not disabled.

    They have received 100,000 in third level fees and grants for their children.

    The nixer takes in 40k gross, I think, but there are costs out of that.

    They recently paid 46,200 cash for an SUV car.

    They have said to me "you'd be mad to work"

    They can't be unique.

    I'd say this is widespread, and common.

    So I am not surprised at the OP's story.

    Former students of mine worked for the DSP in Longford processing DA claims, and they told me that the main pressure from TDs is to get people onto DA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 856 ✭✭✭csirl


    It may well be that the OP has discovered how generous our welfare system is for some types of claimants.

    If the people being spoken about are openly showing how much they can earn by working the sweet spot between eligibility and earnings, it may be because they're happy to tell people how they have been able to maximise their household income by legally working the system.

    The problem may be a SW policy one rather than the people doing anything illegal.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24 luke1313


    I suggest you find a hobby, a husband or a boyfriend? You certainly have too much time on your hands. Perhaps you can help me with your investigative expertise.😂

    I saw Micheál Martin leave the government buildings 5 months ago, with four security guards. This is a travesty!! Who is paying for this!! Why four, why not three? It's a scandal!!

    Another time, I have the evidence!!! I saw him walking again with security! Last year in June, he was having an ice cream cone! I looked carefully I think it was a vanilla, looked like 3 scoops. Who is paying for this!! I reported him to Revenue 1 scoop should be enough! Three scoops could melt quickly, it's a waste of tax payers money. I'm so 😠



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,101 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Reporting is Anonymous & you will never know if DSP acted on the report. But it's important to state those on Disability Allowance are in fact entitled to work.

    People assume claimants of DA or Carer's allowance don't have their payments reviewed, they do.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭witchgirl26


    OP you will never know the outcome of the investigation unless the people involved tell you. So you can either keep reporting which sounds a bit like a vendetta or accept that you've reported, it's either been looked at & deemed ok or it is under investigation.

    As for the registering a company name - my mam had her own private business for years. She registered the name so as to stop another business with a similar offering using the name she was. It was advised to her to do this. After that, as she was a sole trader & not a ltd company, she did not have to file publically available returns anywhere. Not on the CRO and not with revenue. Key word there - publically. Because she wasn't a private limited company (ltd) or a public limited company (plc). So all returns to revenue etc were handled privately between her, her accountant & them. She didn't have to have an accountant, she just decided to.

    Also if they're allowed to operate a business under the rules of claiming DA, then why on earth wouldn't they be allowed to employ people if needed? In fact, if their disability means that they couldn't do as much as they might need to in busy times, it would almost be essential to keep the business going.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭thebourke




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,001 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    To my knowledge the only state benefit that you are guaranteed to stay on for life is the contributory pension once you are old enough to receive it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭thebourke


    i was out of work a few years ago.i went onto JSB.Max you can be on that is 9 months, then you get means tested.i always though JSA was the lifers one…lol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,262 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Yes, also known as the dole.

    Paid at the same rate as JSB.

    Actually, the long-term unemployed on JSA get more than JSB, as they get the Xmas bonus. Great country.

    JSA does not exist in the USA.

    In Germany, JSB is 57-60% of former wages, while JSA "Hartz IV" is 449 per month in 2022.

    We are one of the few/only countries to give the long-term unemployed more payments than the short-term unemployed.

    Thankfully, this is due to change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,950 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    …great, widescale psychological assessments for those on long term welfare, its about time we truly provided such assessments, and provided the critical services for these citizens, theres not much fun dealing with undiagnosed developmental disorders, learning disabilities, personality disorders, behavioral problems etc etc, this is great news, and about bloody time!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭thebourke


    WE

    We are crying out for staff in many sectors in ireland….i don't understand how some people are left on the dole for life and never contribute anything to society.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,950 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,262 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I suppose there's no votes in tackling it?

    Some of the people on long-term JSA are unemployable, so i suppose it'e easier to simply pay them?

    The Cork man responsible for the longest running welfare fraud, claiming his parents pensions, was himself on JSA for decades:

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40809462.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭thebourke


    if you are on JSA they never force you to look for a job?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,001 ✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    Of course they force you to look for employment, they will either refer you seetec who you have to engage with or recommend you do a CE scheme, if you refuse CE they will refer you to TUS which is much less of a voluntary option than CE. If you refuse that they cut your jobseekers. I’ve never heard of a person on jobseekers that has never had job activation measures forced on them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,101 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    JSA is not, nor do we have Dole in Ireland. Of course there are those for whatever reason are on JSA indefinitely but it is supposed to be a temporary payment. Job activation programs have had some effect but little in reducing the amount of time some are on JSA.

    Many go on CE schemes & spend years on them despite a limit to the amount of time a person can be on one, people over 55 I believe can essentially get any amount of extensions till retirement age.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,950 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    …exactly, again, the underlying problems are largely psychologically based, and tend to be very complex in nature, we urgently need to implement health care related policies, to provide such individuals with their needs, and you d be better off just paying them more also, as they d simply spend this money into the economy, benefitting the businesses that receive such money, particularly sme's.

    forcing them into employment or education and training simply wont work, as the underlying issues arent being addressed….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,262 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Why my FIL was not subject to job activation / SeeTec, etc., I don't know.

    Maybe because he is 60+?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,950 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    i have seen lads that age being forced into such programs, its disgraceful really, lads that worked since their teens…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 691 ✭✭✭_BAA_RAM_EWE


    I don't understand neighbours reporting each other for pennies OP. You are supposedly their friend if they tell you and show you their business data like they have.

    If you just add up the money from the children's hospital, pyrite houses bill, over payments to Ukraine's (versus other EU countries) and the huge vast sums going to hotels for IPAs now. It's near or probably over 10billion wasted with just these 3 things (never mind the HSE) in the last few years and here you are fighting over crumbs.

    I don't bother with people anymore.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 628 ✭✭✭hawthorne


    What I don't understand is that there are folks out there who hand out all their private financial data to their neighbours.

    I NEVER met any neighbour in my life who gave me any figures or information about his/her various properties or financial affairs.

    Could it be that there are people here who post stuff they just made up?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,101 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Generally over 60's are not referred to job activation programs, they can however, if they wish go on CE schemes up to retirement age

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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