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The decline of SF?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,105 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The point that was made was that SF attracts far more of the people who believe such rubbish than any other party, because SF plays up to that agenda. The facts back up that opinion. Your response is deflective nonsense and doesn't in any meaningful way refute the point made. It would get zero points in a primary school debating competition.



  • Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What are the numbers for SF for the same questions ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,201 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    38% for Q1 and 25% for Q2.

    You avoiding the question?
    How did FG and FF 'harvest' and keep happy their percentages of conspiracy believers?

    Had you looked with an unjaundiced eye you would see that survey shows they all have a percentage who believe this stuff.

    Therefore the only time it becomes a major problem is when it influences party policy or actions and I don't see that happening in any of the major parties.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,201 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So if support for these theories are played up to, how did FF and FG attract so many?

    47% of Greens according to the same survey believe:

    The government keeps many important secrets from the public

    51% of FG and 46% of FF believe the same and those 3 are the government

    22% of greens believe the following:

    There are ongoing, hidden efforts to marginalise, control, or destroy certain groups of people through the use of political policies



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭pureza


    This thread is dredging the barrel for ansty tat titting again.

    When the elections called SF will solidify and grow in the polls and will certainly improve on 2020.

    Voters will do different things in polling booths than what they were asked about 6 months earlier when confused and riled up by racists,it concentrates minds.

    SF will reel in the lapsed shinners.

    That is my opinion on what will happen.



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  • Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So 38 v 25 v 23 and 25 v 15 v 11.

    That's a significant difference in both questions for SF. And there isn't much of a difference between FG/FF.

    What's your explanation for SF attracting more of the CT vote considering you don't believe they chased it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,201 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    There are questions for all obviously, if you are going to start asking questions.

    I have and my answer is, if these theories begin to manifest themselves in policy then it is time to worry. Across all parties I would imagine they are beliefs held mostly by the young and that would explain why it is higher in SF, given they attract a younger vote during the period.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,105 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    No, the figures show that there is a baseline number across all parties, but that one party - SF - stands alone and different from the others. The questions are for SF.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,201 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    What questions?
    And why would you not ask them of a party that has 51% of it's supporters giving the same answer in one instance?
    Or 47% in the case of the party you vote for?

    I know why only one party is answerable, but you'll never admit to it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    It's your opinion, that's fine. Have you any basis for that opinion or hunch?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,201 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Ever meet any of the 'bald lads' colleagues on the council locally? Hughie 'Gimme loads of sterling' and your man that fancied himself with a broken glass? You'll find all sorts in political parties would be my anecdotal experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    Boris Johnson contributed handsomely to the SF surge in 2020. His election, not 70 days prior to the Irish election, served to put an anti Brit sentiment in the minds of a lot of Irish people. That, aligned with some frustration with the incumbent govt, came out in the polls.

    The corollary is that Keir Starmers election is very bad news for SF



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Charlie Flanagan was their biggest vote getter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,105 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Whataboutery deflection is boring. It is your default response to everything said about Sinn Fein.

    The truth is that SF has more criminals, more conspiracy theorists, more eejits than any other political party in the country. If Walz was here he would call the likes of Adams weird.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,201 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I compare parties before I vote for them. Isn’t what you and the survey are doing ‘comparing’?
    Crimnals? The major parties all had their share.

    Conspiracy theorists, they all have their share particularly among their younger support. And at the time of the survey SF had the majority of the you g’s support.

    Eejits? Well now I think they all certainly have a share of them too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,879 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    Just on Gemma, there was only one council voted to nominate her for president (Laois CC), they voted on her not two weeks (Sept 23rd) after her infamous statements regarding Veronica Guerin (happened Sept 6th) so her conspiracys and falsehoods were already well established

    13 Laois county councillors abstained, those who voted that Gemma was a suitable nominee were Caroline Dwane Stanley (SF), Aidan Mullins (SF ), Ben Brennan (IND) and Paschal McEvoy (FF)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,201 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The 'abstentions' tells you all you need to know. Support for Gemma withdrew gradually as it became apparent how far she was going on the conspiracy trail. She still had some currency in journalism at that time. Her investigative journalism blew the lid of abuse in a Dublin Rugby school in 2018 for instance. Not denying it disappeared fairly quickly from that time on but her credibility didn't disappear overnight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,105 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    No surprise that Stanley supported Gemma, she is the wife of Brian Stanley, well-known conspiracy theorist.

    SF like to keep it in the family with the Stanleys not the only example of TD husband, Councillor wife doing the rounds.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,201 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    SF like to keep it in the family

    As do your party blanch. Catherine Martin and her husband?

    Pippa Hackett , co-opted her hubbie into her seat, her son tried to get into the family biz too.
    Not to mention FG, Olwyn Enright, daughter of Senator T. Enwright and married to TD Joe McHugh.

    Then you have the Kitts, and the Lenihan family dynasty? Des O'Malley and his daughter? Cathal Coughlan and his daughter Mary? The Harte and Blaney dynasties?

    On it goes but SF are 'exceptional' as per usual.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,166 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    And Mullins is of similar cloth; but also has views that most parties would throw you out for expressing



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,105 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I've seen some of his hate stuff on Twitter, seems obsessed with immigration. He is one of the "I'm not a racist, but…." crowd.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,201 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Google throws up one tweet on transgender issues that caused controversy.
    Any examples of these 'hate' tweets?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,105 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    "Because of the UK's Rwanda Bill over 80% of so-called Asylum Seekers are now coming here from the UK, a safe country. We can refuse these asylum applicants, the vast majority are economic migrants and stop putting them up in hotels with food and free medical cards. Insanity."

    This is one of his tweets from earlier this year. Dog-whistling to the racists. Clear example of the "I'm not a racist, but…" Could also be classified as one of the "I'm not far-right, but……."

    No need to deflect to what others are saying, whether that be councillors, TDs or Ministers. The question is whether, you, as a SF supporter and apologist, are happy with this type of dog-whistling. If you have no problem with it, fair enough, but you wouldn't see this type of stuff from real left-wing parties like Labour, SDs or the Greens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,201 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yeh, that last year FG style labelling. Anyone voiced a concern it was racist and dog whistling.
    Simon wasn’t long switching to the right when he got in, accepting many of the concerns.
    There is no hate in the tweet blanch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,201 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If we’re gonna judge political party offerings on the antics of councillors we’d have hours of fun.
    Monaghan alone would offer some fun on it’s own.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭pureza


    Correct,there isn't

    Threads like this one and the FG one are only being bumped now by the rival 3 or 4 posters one upping each other,making a mockery of this once venerable discussion forum and worse immune to how silly they look

    Also not alone is that tweet not abusive,the tweet is only speaking the truth

    Most of these migrants are schooled now to say they're from Gaza having either come via the north or flushed their passport down the loo of a ryanair plane from luton



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,105 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You are wrong, the tweet is a clear example of dog-whistling. It is making claims that are untrue and playing to the gallery.

    Firstly, the 80% figure is based on the numbers presenting for the first time at the International Protection Office, rather than at ports and airports (Micheal Martin explained this but it wasn't listened to). The Irish Refugee Council says that this does not mean that they have all entered via the UK or that they stayed any length in the UK.

    Secondly, the tweet gives the impression that "we can refuse these asylum applicants" as if that is something that we are not doing. We are refusing asylum applicants, but only after due process as required under our international obligations. We could speed up the refusal process with more resources at huge expense, but we cannot refuse them on entry as the tweet implies.

    Thirdly, the claim is made, with zero evidence, that the vast majority are economic migrants. That SF troll tweeting it has no access to any data to verify that claim.

    Fourthly, given that people are having to live in tents his claim that we are "putting them up in hotels with food" is also another dog-whistling untruth.

    The tweet could easily have come from a representative of II.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,201 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It's 'dogwhistling' because you need an excuse to ignore concerns. As said, this was the policy of government a year ago. It's now wholly redundant as finally Harris has been forced into talking about action even if it is as yet unclear if action has been taken.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    what are you talking about? Brian's married to Caroline. Need a hand removing that foot from your mouth?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,788 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    you really shouldnt talk about people you dont know. Aiden's a decent fella and Laois people vote for him at every election he enters. Boards really needs to come down on this bullshitting - thats a comment and viewpoint, not an attempt at backseat moderating btw. There's lads in this thread that could get themselves sued for spreading false information and slander



This discussion has been closed.
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