Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

The blood samples were tested in labs in the relevant countries (ie where the competitions were taking place: Turkey and then India)

A blood sample was collected on May 17, 2022, and taken to Turkey's Sistem Tip Laboratory after Lin won gold and Khelif won silver in respective weight categories.

A week later the lab issued a report to the IBA, following the competition in Istanbul, which "detected results that didn’t match the eligibility criteria for IBA women’s events".

The association flagged one test was not enough due to the possibility of error and they were advised by "lawyers" to monitor the situation and reach out to the International Olympic Committee about the results.

The IBA has claimed there was no response from the International Olympic Committee (IOC).

Further consultations led the IBA to conduct a second test, which had to be undertaken during competition and in a "neutral country".

The next event was held in New Delhi, India, in March 2023 where both Khelif and Lin agreed to another blood test, with the sample taken to Dr Lal PathLabs.

The report was returned six days later to the IBA, confirming the findings were "identical" to the results from the sample taken in Turkey, the association claimed.

Khelif and Lin were given a copy of the results, which the boxing association said were "never disputed". The IBA board agreed to disqualify the pair from the 2023 championship.


The reason for the time between the two tests was a legal one: the IBA could not insist on a repeat test being done until the boxer came within its remit again, ie took part in an IBA-run competition.

But the boxers, their teams and the IOC was informed from 2022 onwards. The IOC chose to ignore the problem, hoping to railroad its own decision (to allow biological males to fight women) through.

It’s not entirely certain yet that the IOC has lost this fight.

But if they do, it’s the end of women’s sport in the short to medium term.

International Boxing Association attempts to clarify details of gender tests on boxers Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting

Love the selective referencing:

"We did receive a letter... (but) the method of the testing, the idea of the testing, which happened overnight (in 2023), none of it was legitimate. 

"The test was, as far as we can see, taken arbitrarily. One of the boxers had beaten a Russian boxer," Mr Adams said.

The IOC flagged it had used boxing rules from Tokyo 2020, which both Khelif and Lin participated in, as a "baseline to develop its regulations" in Paris.

Remember Tokyo was ran under the IBA.

Yet this thread is insisting the IOC is trying to change the rules

There is no test in existence by which “real” vs “fake” trans can be distinguished so that’s a meaningless claim.

Do you have an opinion on biological males (trans or not) fighting women who have not explicitly consented to fight males? Is that ok or not?

A Thai friend/colleague tells me that Suwannapheng is from a very poor region in Thailand and that winning last night would have been massive for her. Winning gold would be a life changer.

It’s a shame that there are rarely any articles about the tough lives of the women athletes who are losing out to these men. Like the Tongan weightlifter, Kuinini Manumua, who would have qualified for the Tokyo Olympics if wealthy, hyper-privileged Laurel Hubbard had not stolen her place. There’s another indigenous woman who lost out too, a name beginning with D*, who has so disappeared from history that I can’t even find her name now.

As I recall, one of them was given a “wild card” place because of all the protests about Hubbard - but only because of the public row. That was a one-off and if we stop shouting about it, it will soon become the norm for women to lose out to men. Again.

ETA: *Her name is Roviel Detenamo, from Nauro. She was just 18 at the time.

Thanks for that. The Turkish test was news to me.

I understand that they couldn't retest until they came under their remit, that makes perfect sense obviously. But It's a strange that they didn't act on the Turkish test. Was it ever announce or is there any record of it? If all other instances, NGOs provisionally ban and its up to the fighter to appeal or retest the B sample. Are they saying that Turkey was not considered a neutral country but India was?

The IOC disputes the timeline of the Indian test. They said it was overnight and was tested only after already beating a few fighters. FWIW the lab in Indian is a private lab not accredited for anti-doping tests, but sex testing may not come under that.

I've no idea what your point is here TBH. If you'd read the summary of the information given at the press conference yesterday, as well as in various other places, that has all been publicly available information for a few days now. I haven't seen any suggestion that either country was not neutral, never mind that the IBA said so, but it really is irrelevant to the main issue anyway.

As I said, my position is that there needs to be systematic sex-screening for all female boxers, rather than wait until coaches from other teams start complaining, which is what is said to have happened here. It is not good for the individual boxers concerned that this has happened in this way - it's unnecessarily humiliating for them.

But since there is a doubt, because there is no certainty of sex to oppose to any complaints (because passports are a ridiculously poor level of proof), then the individual competitors must now either release their previous results, or take new tests. The assumption cannot be that it's fine to potentially put women up against men just because it would be embarrassing to do tests at this stage. It's concerning that so many people, both on the IOC and in the media, seem to think it doesn't matter if women are being told to go out and be hit by men or lose their chance at a medal.

Or at least it doesn't matter as much as hurting men's feelings and making the IOC look incompetent.

He's already clarified that he doesn't. This is just bizarre nitpicking now: in this context (qualification for a protected category), only male DSDs are ever a problem, because if a female (XX) athlete has a female-specific DSD, that can't cause her to fail a sex-screening chromosomal test.

However awkwardly the poster may have expressed himself initially (and I can't really remember noticing much wrong, myself) surely by now it's clear that this is what was meant, and you can move on from that? It looks like you think you have some sort of "gotcha", but you really don't. It's tedious at this point and is just preventing the rest of the discussion from flowing normally.

However, by changing their pattern and posture to imitate a female, they can slip unnoticed beneath the gaze of larger males—and then mate with their female partners!

I’m not sure this article makes the argument you seem to think it makes! What they’re calling transgender is most definitely not what modern society means by that term!

The word seems to mean all things to all people. That’s not really evidence for an “it” having existed in all societies and among animals when the thing that “it” designates varies so wildly from one society to another and from one species to another.

Lin-Yu Ting Just won the Women's 57kg Semi-final so now there us a very high chance that XY DSD athletes win 2 of the 6 women's boxing gold medals

That's what the person on the video obviously meant. But it's not what the poster here said. They clearly when they misunderstood the video, as I said. The initial comment wasn't even about the boxer, it was about Castor.

if he fathered children then obviously he's a man and as it happens only men suffer with DSDs as I discovered listening to Maya Yamauchi.

Even when @chopperbyrne pointed out that DSDs are not specific to men, they doubled down on it

Not only men can have DSDs, but they are sex specific.

You say "not only men" so are you suggesting women can have DSDs too?

Sex specific yes = men only,

There's absolutely no ambiguity those sentences. They are clearly saying only men suffer from DSD. Claimits its about the boxer specifically is clearly an attempt to move the goalposts.

What has transgender got to do with anything here? And what are you looking for to be considered "natural".

What do you means by transgender in that sense. DSDs are natural.
Transitioning is a medical procedure. It's not natural. Neither is any medical procedure really. I doubt anyone has claimed otherwise.

Sorry that all seems too pointless to deal with each bit (because you’re failing to respond to my fundamental question to you on this which I’ve asked several times now, so I’m not going into the long grass on pointless speculation.

It may all be as questionable as you say. But there is a simple way to achieve clarity and that is to release the results. That the athletes concerned have sent legal letters to the IBA enjoining them not to do so strongly suggests that the results are not in the athletes’ favour.

And in the longer term, to prevent this from ever happening again, the IOC must bring back sex screening.

Wouod you agree with those two points or not?

There are seven million people on the island of Ireland. How many examples do you have of athletes with male chromosomes competing against female athletes in Ireland? List them all out here.