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Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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Comments

  • #9152
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I can tell ye now all the cuts will do is raise MUP. That'll be the answer. They will never get the fcuking message. Pricing does nothing to address the health impact. Also it was never about our health. It was about the extra tax take and trying to keep the wnakers who run pubs happy.



  • #9153
    Busman Paddy Lasty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,486 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Political Mrs Lovejoys AAI doing the dirty work for pub trade. Useful idiots.



  • #9154
    iamstop
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 13,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭iamstop


    I was kind of surprised. 'Only' 7 Yips for a Guinness at Dublin airport departures but $19 CAD for an IPA at Montreal airport. XE.com says that's about 12.70 in Euros!

    https://open.spotify.com/album/69JKwCcZGdLqX4Upj3DwP7



  • #9155
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122422379#Comment_122422379

    I believe that relatively speaking "on license" alcohol is not that expensive in Ireland.

    There is a thread in Current Affairs/IMO about the price of a pint and plenty of people pointing out how it's more expensive in parts of the UK , USA etc.



  • #9156
    Geuze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,808 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122422305#Comment_122422305

    MUP is not a tax, so there is no extra tax take.

    (maybe higher VAT on the higher price, but that is offset maybe by lower sales or changing composition of sales)

    I accept your general point.



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  • #9157
    bog master
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭bog master


    Not a tax perhaps but it is "price fixing" where I cannot purchase an item at market value. And manufacturers-retailers make an extra profit because of this price fixing. Not an extra penny going to prevent alcohol abuse from the government.



  • #9158
    ednwireland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,884 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    8 euro for a 400ml glass of craft beer in a pub in Finland.

    10 to 12 euro for a 6 pack of local lager, 330ml cans with drs tax.

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • #9159
    bluedex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 446 ✭✭bluedex


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122422924#Comment_122422924

    Buying a beer in the US or Canada is generally much more expensive than Ireland, if you go anywhere half decent.

    Compared to Spain or other part of continental Europe.. different story

    Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.



  • #9160
    BraveDonut
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭BraveDonut


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122422924#Comment_122422924

    I have started spending time in Belfast with work and have been really surprised with the price of a pint (and food). £7 for a Guinness in once place



  • #9161
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122422957#Comment_122422957

    Ah look I think you are splitting hairs. Obviously if the minimum price of something goes from whatever the retailer wants to charge (Let's say €10 for 20 330ml heinekens) to €22. Then the value added tax will increase.

    Are consumption and sales lower? I haven't really seen much solid evidence of that. I could be wrong though. Where are people going for their alcohol instead and why is alcohol harm up then?

    it's here to stay and the fear now is the AAI and the publicans look for an increase. I was in the pub the other day and was paying €6.80 for a pint of lager. I won't be going back out in a hurry. Plan is to put something in the back garden a covered TV.



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  • #9162
    Mr. teddywinkles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,657 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Home brewing for the price now is actually worth the time and effort i reckon.

    If they rise it again. People in general will be looking into it id say.



  • #9163
    Geuze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,808 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122423172#Comment_122423172

    Yes.

    Take the supermarket own brand beer, especially the imported products.

    Did the DE or FR brewer get a higher price due to MUP? I doubt it?

    Therefore, the supermarkets captured all that extra price as extra profits.



  • #9164
    Rocket_GD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rocket_GD


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122423896#Comment_122423896

    Exactly, not that it's any good or anything but used to be able to buy 12 Galahad cans in Aldi for around €9, now it's €18.94, price has doubled since MUP.



  • #9165
    thesandeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,150 ✭✭✭✭thesandeman


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122423896#Comment_122423896

    And they've increased most of their own brand stuff to above MUP to screw us even more.



  • #9166
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122424095#Comment_122424095

    They have to, if you can buy a can of Galahad for €1.57 their bottle of ale for €1.80 became too appealing, hence why it's now €2.20. This wasn't an issue when the can of muck was 70c

    It's a classic case of anti-competitive govt interference and questionable why EU laws don't apply here



  • #9167
    bladespin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,496 ✭✭✭bladespin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122422957#Comment_122422957

    It absolutely is a tax, who the proceeds go to is irrelevant, government or private firm.

    Untitled Image

    MasteryDarts Ireland - Master your game!



  • #9168
    Geuze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,808 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Definition of a tax:

    a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and business profits, or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions.

    MUP is a price floor, like the minimum wage.

    It is not an excise duty.

    It is not a tax.

    Taxes are collected by the State.

    The higher price due to MUP goes to the retailer and/or supplier.



  • #9169
    Geuze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,808 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Is the min wage a tax? No.

    Well, similarly, MUP is not a tax.



  • #9170
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Any increase in price means an increase in tax. That's the point.



  • #9171
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,445 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122424712#Comment_122424712

    What should we call it then, a cut for rent seekers?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • #9172
    bog master
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭bog master


    MUP mandates retailers sell certain alcohol products at a minimum price. Using the example of a previous poster with the Aldi brand beer 12 pack was €8.94 which €1.67 is VAT. Now it is €18.94 of which €3.54 is VAT. Exact same product. VAT is a tax so part of the MUP cost is a tax. And Aldi and other retailers get to increase their profits enormously. This windfall should have been ring fenced to provide services to those with alcohol problems. You know, the ones this scheme is trying to help!



  • #9173
    Geuze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,808 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I accept your point that MUP leads to higher VAT receipts, assuming no change in consumer behaviour.

    But MUP itself is not a tax.

    Yes, retail profits will have increased.

    I'm no fan of MUP or higher excise, but at least with the excise duty, the extra State revenues could be earmarked for harm prevention or reduction, as you say.



  • #9174
    bog master
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭bog master


    Either way we pay more. Gov't mandates this to help people with their addiction, the retailers make a windfall profit and we the consumer pay. Much like the DRS where the consumer gets to do the sorting and depositing of items and less waste is collected in our bins and our charges go up.



  • #9175
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122424902#Comment_122424902

    I accept your point that MUP leads to higher VAT receipts, assuming no change in consumer behaviour.

    But isn't this the whole idea behind MUP.

    Consumer behavior will change because of the price increase, and there will be no "windfall" as one poster called it because the sales volumes will be reduced.

    I'm not much of an off license buyer myself, maybe a six pack or a 1L bottle of cider once or twice a month.

    But since MUP even that has reduced.

    I find the selection in places like Aldi and Lidl way down and what is there is poor value because of MUP.

    Whatever about the levels of addiction treatment etc it would be interesting to know what off license sales have been like since MUP, especially for retailers where the border doesn't come into the equation.



  • #9176
    techman1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,051 ✭✭✭techman1


    was kind of surprised. 'Only' 7 Yips for a Guinness at Dublin airport departures but $19 CAD for an IPA at Montreal airport. XE.com says that's about 12.70 in Euros!

    CCanada is a very wealthy and expensive country, comparing Ireland with Canada is not comparing like with like, the UK and Europe are our benchmarks for alcohol prices. Ireland doesn't have a massive land mass and resource sector like the Canadians



  • #9177
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122425053#Comment_122425053

    This the problem. Self interest groups like AAI and VFI try to pass decreased sales as a good thing without acknowledging the fact the it hasn't resolved problem drinking or health related issues caused by problem drinking.

    That's the elephant in the room.



  • #9178
    bog master
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭bog master


    Hmmm,

    Ireland: annual volume of beer consumed per capita 2008-2022

    Published by
    Jan Conway,
    Apr 2, 2024
    In 2022, the volume of beer consumed per
    capita in Ireland amounted to 71 liters. This represented an increase of
    16 percent compared to the previous year.
    MUP introduced January 2022. Not much of a decrease.



  • #9179
    Yeah Right
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭Yeah Right


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122425813#Comment_122425813

    Watch the Maude Flanders brigade now, clutching their pearls, claiming that MUP needs to be increased further to combat this increase.

    Of course, had it decreased over that same time period, the claims would be that it is working, so it needs to be increased.

    Heads they win, tails we lose.



  • #9180
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,682 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122425813#Comment_122425813

    2018 80. 2019 77. 2020 64. 2021 61. 2022 71. Covid effect.

    2008 was 99. Beer has been dropping a lot over the years, even before the pandemic and MUP. Probably reflecting the extra disposable income which people have for discretionary spending on the more luxury side.

    You would need to show the figures for wine, spirits and cider to get a better overview.



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  • #9181
    bog master
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭bog master


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122426266#Comment_122426266

    Alcohol consumption has been dropping over the last 10-15 years before MUP. Beer is the most widely purchased off license product. Medium to high end wines and spirits are not affected by MUP. Studies on Scotland's MUP experiment has shown at best, minimal to questionable benefits to those it is intended to benefit.



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