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Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    So basically pandering to Re-Scam.

    Wow, RTE would never do that!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,331 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    I didn't go through with the individual receipts, mainly because it would have been a pain in the hole in general to sort. I did take the chance at putting them all through, and it worked. Except for one exact same but older diet coke can that was pre-barcode. So it went into the general waste bin right beside the can recycling machines. Along with the 4 cardboard boxes which would normally go into the recycling bin at home along with the cans.

    So net outcome of this better for everyone and the environment scam, is:

    • Re-Scam: 71 of 72 cans got "recycled" (we're still waiting for confirmation that these are actually getting recycled, yeah?), but 4 cardboard boxes and 1 can went into public general waste + related car costs (small, but scale), and increased home bin costs + electricity costs of the machine + costs of having the machines emptied/collected (new routes not previously part of already in operation normal bin collections which have to continue regardless)

    Compared to previously:

    • 72 of 72 cans and 4 cardboard boxes went into my recycling bin at home, and no car/increased bin costs

    I'm obviously blind that I can't see how this is beneficial to me, everyone else and the environment… Queue someone coming on to tell me I should have brought the single can and carboard boxes back home with me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭tohaltuwi


    in Denmark you can return tons of items all at once in a much superior BIG machine that actually works.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭tohaltuwi


    I’m very anti ReScam, but I think some folk on the thread who are pro ReScam aren’t actually shills or insiders of the organisation, but are generally “pro-authority” on most things rolled out by government, and expect everyone to be likewise



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,474 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Yeah we "copied" the scheme without copying many elements of the scheme that made it work.

    Way too many concessions to retailers.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 944 ✭✭✭bog master


    The article mentions (from memory) that plastic PET recycling target is 70% by 2025.

    Can someone tell me how that will be reached when (last figures available) 70% of plastics are INCINERATED!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,474 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Yeah, the author of the article can't even copy and paste right. Maybe they are just ignorant of collection v recycling. Maybe they were deliberately misrepresenting things to make Re-turn look better as a Green initiative.

    It links the EC article which says:

    Specific targets include

    • a 77% separate collection target for plastic bottles by 2025 – increasing to 90% by 2029

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭Archeron


    "In Denmark, where the scheme has been in place for a century,"

    So Denmark have been successfully recycling plastic bottles and aluminium cans since before they were even invented. That is impressive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    You mentioned in your previous post, electricity costs for running the machines. All but one of the machines I have seen are outside. So I have to ask, why are they not solar powered?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,632 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Doesn't make sense.

    Wasting your time and the time of people queuing behind you at the RVM and the checkout.

    Where have I proven myself a shill for anything?

    When did I glorify Re-turn or say I work for them ?

    Or are you just making things up ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,632 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I see now that you didn't go through with the multi receipt plan.

    And yes you should have taken your cardboard and single can home with you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,454 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    They provide a bit of balance in the face of some of the more extreme anti authority people. Like the lad who is going to print out hundreds of individual receipts to make trouble for the shop assistants. Or the lad who is saving up his bottles to burn them in his fire this winter. Or the lad who crushed dozens of containers to see if the machine would accept them.

    There is no need to feel uncomfortable about their presence on the thread. They are in a small minority, but as usual the mob wants everyone to sing from their hymn sheet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 944 ✭✭✭bog master


    So brilliant-we collect all these plastics and then what do we do with them> urn Babie BURN



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    but as usual the mob wants everyone to sing from their hymn sheet.

    That could apply to the pro-ReScam crowd as much as the anti- ReScam crowd.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    A guy rang up Liveline a few months ago. He has his recycling collected every week, and one day just as an experiment into his recycling bag, he put in an airtag, and followed its path straight to the Poolbeg incinerator.

    I'd love to try a similar experiment in a ReScam machine.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,298 ✭✭✭jj880


    Great to have "the mob" in this thread pointing out basic improvements to Re-Turn that would show customers and shop staff some respect in line with other countries.

    Better than people spouting rubbish like "we're not allowed to improve this system as it will complicate the return process".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,692 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    And yes you should have taken your cardboard and single can home with you.

    Why? Chances are they will just end up in landfill anyway.

    Do you honestly think the scale still exists for collection companies now to process "recyclables"?

    By all means you can play pretend but don't pontificate to anyone else who doesn't want to indulge your fantasy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭tohaltuwi


    Absolutely, there’d be no thread worth while without opposite opinions 😃



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭tohaltuwi


    my car boot atm. The refuse from the Marks&Spence machine, bought bottles (at a place with no machine), a wasted journey to a shut Nutgrove Aldi. My boot is very big but this got ridiculous. BTW I need to take a lot of water as I had surgery & can’t absorb liquid well. I don’t have the energy for a wasted day going around looking for machines that work. Life is hard work as it is. It’s a grossly unfair scheme to many.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,901 ✭✭✭SteM


    You were kind of unlucky with your trip to aldi in nutgrove with it being closed for refurb. We had the same issue with aldi in belgard the other week.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,632 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Pontificate.

    No need for big words when I'm only stating the obvious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    The only thing obvious about your posts is that you are some sort of shill for ReScam.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,632 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Is that sort of ad hominem nonsense the best you can do ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    If the machine runs out of paper you lose deposit on one can. They will have to replace paper roll anyway. Why would not spread the wealth? Re-turn is non profit so they can share some of that unclaimed deposit with printer paper roll company there may be some jobs out of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    I print out receipt for every 2 euro. Just in case so I do not have to argue with someone that machine did not printed my 10 euro voucher. I may go down to 1 euro because why not…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    No need to pick up shop you do your shopping. Go to nearest dunnes or tesco put them in and cash receipt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,051 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I cannot understand people making what seems special journeys for returns. I live in rural Ireland. Nearest RVM is about 8 mile's away we just fill a box and we put it in the car when 3/4 full about 15 bottles and cans and then at at shop with a RVM we stand them in. Then if there is a bottle that dose not scan it back.innthe box into the car and it home and into the bin with the bottle or can. The box goes back into position.

    A couple of things hit me reading your post. I use to see the same at glass bottle banks. People that arrived especially after busy times ( Christmas, bank holiday weekends etc) and ifvthe bank was full just left there bag or box of bottles there.

    So you did not recycle one bottle, my God the world needs to stop. You forget that nearly 50% of bottle and cans were not recycled before. I used to pick some up out walking becabecause people threw them out the car window. I kniw you are doing it but some are. I see that is reducing as I go walking now.

    Would you consider buying a half dozen reusable bottled. I purchased a pair of them out of LIDL for a few euro two years ago. I just fill them out of the tap. If you just prefer bottled water buy the large 5L one drums and fill the reusable bottles out of them. However I would just use tap water saves a fortune

    Just as an aside it amazes me the amount of bottle and cans of water and soft drinks people accumulate. We would hardly buy 10 a week. Every family member has a reusable bottle.

    Nothing to do with pro authority I have just learnt over the years it very hard to buck the system.you can spend your life butting you head against it and end up with a headache. The system is there ( as in rules and regs) the best way around itis to put a saddle on it.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭tohaltuwi


    I cannot stand the bleachy taste of tap water, and I’m not too fond of the thoughts of taking so much fluoride which is suspected of inducing cancer, rare that that case may be. I like sparkling. For medical reasons I need a lot of liquid as I cannot absorb much. Secondly I have MS and sometimes have difficulty holding my knife and fork, let alone a 5 litre bottle and emptying it into keep bottles.

    I explained all this type of thing in previous posts. I have bad days & better days when I can get out, it can be a BIG effort at times. When I make that effort I would expect the process to be easy. When I find a machine rejects nearly every bottle, that’s not acceptable, when I journey in and find another machine is not available, well time to turn home with my collection, I don’t have the energy that day to do a tour of south Dublin.

    I’m not a huge exception in society. There’s many like me, for various reasons, find energy & effort needs to be conserved. Having such a poorly run scheme is grossly unfair to such people and indeed people were lied to by TDs. I don’t routinely use a wheelchair, yet, but many fo, a TD when interviewed in the radio told the interviewer that all machines were adapted to the needs of wheelchair users.

    These kind of things I rail against, I don’t accept. I have played my part in acting for change in the past, I have done my little bit to get things changed and cut through bullshit. It’s how change happens, and change only happens with pressure. If we are to have such a scheme it needs to be like Denmark, where you can throw in 100 bottles, get money into your account if you wish. Shops being the only ones involved is quite frankly corrupted the system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,298 ✭✭✭jj880


    Exactly. Some simple changes would improve things immensely. Unfortunately gombeens made promises to retailers so we keep getting told Re-Turn is great as it is.

    Ive posted a few times here about 6 stage RO under sink filter for drinking and cooking. Best thing we ever got as our tap water is putrid and stinks of chemicals. You don't realise just how bad it is in your locality until you have clean water in your own home. Sounds like it could be a big money saver for you. Added bonus of less deposits in Re-Turn's slush fund.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,454 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    I keep a big bottle of tap water in the fridge. My tap water is fine, but having it cold makes it nicer to my taste. Same applies to bought water. For those who do need to buy water, the suggestion to buy the 5 litre bottles and divide it as needed is a good one.

    Looking at the Tesco prices 20 x 250 ml is €9 before the deposit. Even worse 5 x 1 litre is €10, before deposit. 5 litres in a big bottle is €1.45, no deposit. In the time of a Cost of Living Crisis people need to be smart about this sort of rip off. But if people do need to use 250 ml bottles, one time purchase would be enough, and then buy the 5 litres for refills.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,333 ✭✭✭howiya


    What made it dawn on me that there are shills for ReTurn in the thread is that they didn't agree with refuse collection companies being able to access the deposit for items they receive via household collections.

    Would have got us as close to 100% as possible save for littering and dumping.

    But no, its not about reaching the targets. Its about protecting ReTurns revenue scheme.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,672 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    If you store tap water for 24 hours, the chlorine goes away. What happens to it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,454 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    It evaporates.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 455 ✭✭Shan Doras


    Why aren't restaurants and airport departure areas exempt from changing the levy ? Exempt venues could put an X over the barcode with a permanent black marker at the point of sale



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Because the entire scheme was not fully thought out?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,607 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Because it's about money. Environmental considerations are a distant second. And the negative impact on the people footing the bill probably wasn't considered at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    You have to pay extra for a can of beer or coke in a restaurant, due to DRS?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Coke in restaurants comes in glass bottles. I've not bought a can of beer in a pub or restaurant since before the scam, I mean scheme came in, but there are no exemptions, so I would assume so.

    Post edited by LambshankRedemption on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Surely the restaurant would absorb the cost as they would be the ones returning the cans.

    No need to pass on the cost to the customer, if they were using containers that qualify for the DRS.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Yes because pubs and restaurants commonly absorb additional costs.

    as they would be the ones returning the cans.

    Pubs and restaurants have more to be doing than queuing at a DRS scheme, they will just put the few cans they have into their usual waste.

    BlueSkyDreams, you are still dreaming.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    I dont doubt that they wont be returning the cans. My point is that they wont pass on the cost of the scheme to the customer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 455 ✭✭Shan Doras


    It's been widely reported on this thread that McDonald are charging the 15c on the bottle of fruit juice that comes with the happy meal, so if a major multinational isn't absorbing it.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    They provide the bottle to the customer to take away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 455 ✭✭Shan Doras




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Its true though.

    If the cost is 15c per bottle and they give the bottle to you to take away, why would they not pass on the cost?

    Think about how many bottles they sell each day, across the country. Then stack that number over 12 months....would you absorb that cost, if it was your business?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,632 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    The restaurants have already paid the 15c to the wholesalers when they bought the stock.

    So you'd need a separate stream of stock with different barcodes.

    I thought it might be possible to sell duty free stock airside but we never got any confirmation whether or not that could be done.

    The stock used on board planes has no deposit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,298 ✭✭✭jj880


    When costs reach their final destination theres only 1 group paying. Anything in between is meaningless.

    The only absorbing going on is Re-Turn absorbing deposits. No stats available on that of course.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    How many restaurants have you been in that serve plastic bottles to their customers?

    Even cans in a pub are rare enough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Poster was talking about Mcdonalds. Where they do give you the plastic bottle.



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