Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122410903#Comment_122410903

Well, there's still stock in the off licence of my local supermarket outlet which is part of a major national chain not in the scheme… so if they don't seem too bothered I doubt anyone else is. And they would be a stickler for any regs to do with alcohol sales.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122410836#Comment_122410836

Are you suggesting the scam, I mean scheme was not properly thought out??

But, but, we copied the scheme exactly as it is in other countries. Just with a couple of small tweaks..

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122410828#Comment_122410828

Good point. Hadnt thought of that.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122410914#Comment_122410914

Do you think it's just old stock or is it maybe "grey import" stuff.

Are they charging deposit on it ?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122411277#Comment_122411277

Seemed like it was old stock, it was from an Irish producer. I wasn't charged a deposit.

It didn't have the logo, and the barcode wasn't on the system.

greasepalm

Local chipper i ordered food and a can of Fanta possibly outsourced as only recycle on can and no barcode and no deposit charged.

Badly Drunk Boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122410825#Comment_122410825

Most vendors are shops where you are bringing the product home before consuming. I presume a significant proportion of McDonald's customers eat on the premises, so if they can charge the deposit on the spot, why not return the deposit too?

(I don't eat in McDonald's either, by the way.)

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122411571#Comment_122411571

Plenty of obvious reasons why McDonalds (or anyone else) wouldnt do that.

But for a start, McDonalds would have to employ their own staff to collect, clean, store, transport and deposit the used bottles at a DRS machine, as well as managing the transactions at the check out for returned bottles and their deposits.

A lot of time and labour plus an additonal cost to the business. No thanks.

The customer has the bottle. Whether they choose to eat inside or go home, they have the bottle. If they want the cash back, return it to the DRS machine. Simples.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122411661#Comment_122411661

Or they might stop selling bottles which wouldn't be a bad thing tbh.

bog master

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122411661#Comment_122411661

And the consumer has to collect, clean, store, and transport deposit the used bottles at DRS machine at a DRS machine and pay more to their waste collector for collecting less!

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122411904#Comment_122411904

There is a cost to the consumer for sure. Otherwise the price of the deposit would be built into the original price of the product.

Shan Doras

Another thing I don't like is shops not displaying the full price, like in a discount shop recently they had a big sign up "2 500ml bottles of coke for 3€ " but when i brought them to the till the price was 3.30

Shan Doras

A electronic shop in my area which also sells sweets and drinks have been very cleaver and switched to selling drinks in glass bottles, this shop has been long rumoured to be front for other activities so i presume its in their interests not to want to register with a government quango.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413104#Comment_122413104

That really annoys me.

Just delivered from tesco. 18 x 330ml cans of Pepsi. 10 euro with Clubcard. I was charged 12.70 because of the deposit.

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122410903#Comment_122410903

Some of the shops seem to be openly participating in fraud getting creative…

https://www.tiktok.com/@lisamariesbeauty/video/7393681414308269345

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413104#Comment_122413104

Do they not have to legally display the deposit charge?

Surely they should have to do that, otherwise you cannot know what the total price of purchase is, before you reach the till.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413134#Comment_122413134

Were they 10 euro with clubcard, prior to the DRS?

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413157#Comment_122413157

Yes. I have the receipt right here.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413134#Comment_122413134

All the soft drinks on the Tesco website show the price and the deposit.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122408764#Comment_122408764

There are 2 pubs within 30m from my work. I noticed quite a lot of noise between 3-5am. When I went out few times to find out what is going on I seen "unwell" people going through recycling bins where bottles go. They usually pull out half a black bin bag of plastic bottles - mostly miwadi and cans. Beer cans, mixed drink cans and energy drink cans.

If I would be bored I may go around more pubs to find out how they deal with this issue but in those 2 particular pubs not even staff is bothered to collect returnable containers and that can be quite good indicator what they think of this scheme.

No business is going to "absorb" these costs and very few would collect containers involved. Maybe some staff member may keep few usually those who do have a car. Who would want to walk around with bag of stinking containers in the morning after their shift. Costs are always passed on customer either as a separate charge or hidden in increased price where returnable container is involved.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413162#Comment_122413162

Yep and I think thats where the govt messed up with this scheme.

In order to get people on board, they shouldn't have raised the product price when the scheme was rolled out, but instead built the cost of the deposit into the cost of the current product.

So you would still pay your 10 euro for the 18 cans, but if you did return them, you would get the 2.70 back.

thesandeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413140#Comment_122413140

Nothing illegal about that as long as the deposit was paid along the line.

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413228#Comment_122413228

It's completely illegal, you can't just go bringing a product in to the scheme with the addition of a self printed label at the point of sale, the money needs to be going in to the pool from its purchase at the wholesaler. What has been done there means Coca Cola Ireland is going to be paying the levy for each of those that get returned despite the fact it was sourced in Poland.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122410836#Comment_122410836

Its being slowly implemented. I have seen clear plastic bags with return logo on them by the counters of few small shops. I wonder that how far back do we have to step in order to accommodate this scheme. Like how does this fare with various rules and regulations in regard to hygiene and food safety. They are accepting opened and used containers brought by customrs which can have anything inside like decaying beer or soft drinks, alcohol, juices, smoothies. Mould, bacteria you name it and in places which sell food like deli counter, take away…

No matter how many arguments proponents of this scheme put out about how fantastic and needed it is, there can be equally as many or even more arguments pointing out how bad it is or can be.

We stuck stinking machines with open hoper containers accumulating food waste within couple meters of unpacked ready to eat food instead of making dedicated recycling places which would be much better solution. To sort out in bulk and fraction of time it take compared to individually insert every single container which has to be ferried on a belt and individually crushed all costing power and time.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413171#Comment_122413171

To be honest, I had forgotten about miWadi, but thinking back to my own bar workings days, I dont think we would go through more than one in a night.

Vodka and red bull is a common drink among the young people, so I can see a pub going through a lot in a night.

So in theory an enterprising member of staff could collect them and go to the DRS, buuut, It's 3am, you have just finished your 8 hour shift in the pub, on your feet the whole time. Do you really want to go sifting through the general rubbish for the cans and the odd bottle of miWadi?

And if you did, you would need to collect 100 red bull cans to net you a whopping 15 euro. Then, because you are lucky there is a DRS machine right by your house so you go there to put them in. Its now 3.45am, possibly pissing down, and you are inserting one by one red bull cans into the DRS machine. For 15 euros.

And thats assuming the machine doesnt crash half way through, and was working to begin with.

How many bar staff would be bothered?

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122411670#Comment_122411670

Sure, they can always go back to non recyclable paper cups with plastic lids. Hold on, are they not use them anymore? Dont remember when I was there last time.

thesandeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413236#Comment_122413236

Do we know it's the shop that added the label?

Isn't there a clause somewhere that the producer can do this as long as the deposit is paid to Re-turn.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413279#Comment_122413279

Yes they do, but we are talking about the bottle of (Tropicana?) orange juice that comes with the happy meal. All other drinks do come in unrecyclable papery cups with plastic lids, but the happy meal drink comes in a plastic bottle with a 15 cent deposit.

I was in Burger King yesterday and my meal for 1 cost 9.95. If I had a little tyke with me, I'd imagine the bill would have come to 15 euros. Burger King actually put their orange juice in tetra pack containers. However, were I in McDonalds, with my imaginery little one. Would I really be bothered to bring the empty plastic bottle with me and find a DRS to get me back the 1% of what the meal cost?

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413292#Comment_122413292

Why would Coca Cola Poland be putting Irish DRS barcodes on their cans?

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122413236#Comment_122413236

Who is profiting is the question. Lets speculate a bit about that…

Currently return is profiting simply because a lot of people dont claim deposit back. Middle man re shops are at zero. Customers are at zero or losing but willingly.

If return is printing these and they are applied to imported stuff then return is charging levy, shop which sells them is at zero and customer is at zero if they are returned and deposit claimed. If deposit is not claimed return is profiting same as above and customer is losing but willingly.

If shops are being creative and making them themselves then they are profiting, return is losing (actual loss is debatable since we are constantly reminded they are non profit and they do have quite a big slush fund from non claimed deposits to absorb this cost) and customer is at zero or losing but willingly if deposit is not claimed.

If customers are printing them they are profiting and return is losing and as above they may be able to absorb costs due to excess they get from not claimed deposit and also imports of not labeled stuff is slowly drying out.

Another possible scenario is printing 25c labels and applying them on 15c bottles which is possible but seems too much of a hassle for 10c unless someone is doing it on industrial scale. In this case return is losing but I do not expect to see this happening in any meaningful way to reduce return profits from non claimed deposits.