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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    By all accounts, Osborne will be OK for next week so hopefully we'll see him get another run. I'd be surprised if Porter lets a cut on his hand keep him out.

    Osborne

    Nash, Ringrose, Aki/McCloskey, Lowe/JOB

    Crowley, Murray

    Porter, Kelleher, Furlong

    McCarthy, Beirne

    POM, Doris, VDF

    Bench: Herring, Healy, Jager, Ryan, Baird, Blade, Frawley, JOB/McCloskey

    It's still a very decent team and, with the exception of Casey, the injuries are in areas where we have good depth. I'd like to see Jager get a run off the bench, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a 6:2 split either, maybe Cian Prendergast to benefit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭ludeen


    Is a Coombes call up a possibility?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 370 ✭✭VayNiice




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭Rugbyf565


    Timoney is probably ahead of Prendergast due to his versatility to play anywhere in the back row. Although Farrell loves Prendergasts attributes as a player so hard to know. I still can’t understand how POM makes this team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,539 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Losing Sheehan and Casey isn't ideal, at least we have cover for Sheehan, less so for Casey with JGP out too. Originally, (before JGP injury) I thought Murray needn't have travelled but now it looks like he'll start next week.

    I know there are a lot of what ifs from last Saturday but I think, we'll need a huge improvement to win next week. In saying that if Aki is back to his RWC performance then we might be better in defence and attack.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,788 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I don't really think a huge improvement is needed. That was a very close game that we were certainly in with a shout of winning but for a couple of uncharacteristic mistakes.

    All that being said, with the losses I would probably expect a slight dip.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Spilling a ball on their line in the opening minutes, losing a 5m lineout in the second half, Beirne dropping a pass on their 22, Casey getting caught by Snyman at the base (our advantage being called as over literally as he was picking the ball up) and Ryan getting turned over well inside their 22.

    Five instances of where we were in scoring positions and gave them possession back. There were other errors but when you look at those five moments plus the fact that we gave them what are two absolutely gift wrapped tries, there aren't going to be wholesale changes to personnel or tactics and nor does there need to be.

    Lowe doesn't have that moment of insanity and we've a scrum on halfway in a one score game, 4 minutes on the clock and they're down to 14 men.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭ludeen




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Although judging by what happened in the last scrum we probably would have coughed up a penalty on half way which they would have kicked to put us 10 behind, or if missed pinned us back in our 22 with 2 mins to go. The could also have gone to the corner and made us defend in our 22 to close out the game.

    The bigger moments were the lack of reaction when Lowe kept the ball in (Kolbe was excellent) and the Lowe try being called back.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 426 ✭✭Tommysocks11


    Hopefully this week is the end of POM, great servant but past it now and he is ruining his legacy by not retiring from international rugby, he offers nothing at 6 as baird and prendergast deserve starts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I doubt they are going to change the captain mid tour.

    They might swap him to bench with such a short turn around between games to freshen up the team or more likely tell him to give one last big performance before end of season and rest. Then decide what to do next season



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,788 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Big difference between your own put-in and defending a Scrum V. Ireland would look to get it out asap, and the SA flankers can't afford to drive as much as they need to be looking for the ball coming off the scrum on either side.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    I'd like to see Bierne go at 6. With Ryan and Mccarthy in the back row. And Baird and Pendergast on the bench for impact.

    That scrum penalty try at the end was a thing of nightmares. Can't get much worse than that..

    Maybe jager and o toole to bench over healy and beadhlam.. if o toole is going to be longterm option at loose head where better to test him than south Africa.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,221 ✭✭✭riddles


    Is it a bridge too far expecting players following the WC - surely the post WC season shouldn’t have tours like this but extra players downtime?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    SMcC played really well v SA in Nov '22 before having to go off injured.

    Ringrose starting will also help the defence.

    Personally I'd prefer Osborne moved to 12 and JOB at FB (if fit).

    Still cant see Ireland winning. Beirne looks to be running on emptymaybe not. Sheehan's a big loss and Casey in fairness also played really well (Cheap shot by RGS).

    Would also like Prendergast to bench over Frawley.

    Post edited by ionadnapóca on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    SCotland tour of Canada with young players etc might have been a better idea than going into the Lions den. A lot of this comes down to money, SA knew Ireland would sell out stadiums and they could charge a premium for the tickets. Same when SA come to Ireland.



  • Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If we've copped 4 injuries, they aren't going to make an additional, non-enforced change with POM.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Except southern hemisphere can't afford to not have these games. And if we didn't have these games this year with lions next year and none in a year of a world cup. You would only have 1 trip down every 4 years. Not good for game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,450 ✭✭✭PMC83


    Poms been amazing for Ireland and has come up with big moments for us time and time again. Although I think your being a little harsh it does feel like these big moments are becoming less and less frequent. If next week is his last in green I hope he has an absolute stormer.

    Regardless I hope we look past a few of these senior players next November. Its time to move on from a few.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭Stanley 1


    POM does not pick the team, he did very well at lineout time when the pressure came on last Saturday, Farrell would be ruthless if required.



  • Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭ Everleigh Freezing Oasis


    There will be enough injury enforced changes for the coaches to start fiddling with the team I reckon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    And with the lineout wobbles at the weekend, POM is probably not a bad shout (although Baird was very good in the lineout too).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Lineout wobbles are going on years now with and without POM.

    But with a few out injured and POM the captain I doubt Farrell will start making a huge change like dumping the captain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    As losses go this game is still an enjoyable rewatch.

    Beirne played better than I thought on first viewing.

    Doris and PSdT both 9 out of 10

    55'min Score 13-8 - Marx turnover in SA 22

    Game went a bit crazy after that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭FtD v2


    That Marx turnover was such a big moment, and it looked like an incredibly wrong call, with van Staden clearly on the wrong side and blocking the clear out. He gave that exact call earlier in the game, and this one was even more obvious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭ionadnapóca


    https://www.the42.ie/ireland-springboks-analysis-6430428-Jul2024/?utm_source=shortlink

    PSdT roaming free is a sight to behold. Ireland need Ringrose at 13 for Durban Test.

    Untitled Image


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,437 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    I watched the match back, in the cool light of day I felt on review Ireland's execution was well below the usual expected level, especially for the first 30 minutes or so.
    In no particular order, things that stuck in my mind as low points from the match;
    The lapse in defence after 2 minutes was very poor, I think Henshaw could have been more controlled and just shepherded Arendse down the side-line where Osbourne was lining up to make the tackle, but once Arendse stepped inside Henshaw the running angle meant Osbourne had no chance to stop him. To be fair to Arendse, he showed shrewd awareness and clinical footwork when he spotted Henshaw rushing across to him being vulnerable to a step inside.
    The O'Mahony no-look pop into McCarthy's face on the try line after turning down a kick at the posts was extremely disappointing.
    Beirne flinging a ball 20 metres backwards into our 22 past everyone for Crowley to go back, gather and clear into touch without realising it would mean the ball would be brought back to where he kicked it from and conceded 30 metres of territory for no reason.
    Lowe's two mistakes, trying to keep the ball in play with nobody near him (Kolbe was as usual chasing it like his life depended on it to his credit), and trying to play a ball that was heading for the dead ball line from a drop-off.
    I don't blame Kelleher at all for back-heeling the ball in the ruck, but it was a turning point unfortunately.
    Crowley missed an easy penalty early on and two side-line conversions, when we lost by 7.
    Casey cleared a caught kick-off on our own try-line to about 20 metres when he had made a 40 metre clearance earlier from the same thing.
    The scrum-penalty on our try-line, though I honestly don't know what went wrong, maybe there was something the ref missed.
    The scrum-penalty previous to that, where Kelleher popped up, but I don't know how that came about either.
    There were a few knock-ons and there was a lost lineout in their 22 I think Steph du Toit read it and stole it at the front before our jumper got up.

    I hope we can be more clinical the next day, the team worked hard, so just a pity for them that they weren't able to convert more opportunities.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Agree - I don't understand the claims that the lineout struggling with POM on the pitch is justification to keep POM in the side. Not sure how long before there are serious questions asked about POC when they haven't been able to resolve their issues.

    No good answer on what to do with POM for the next match. If you move him to the bench, I fear his further his further regression in the physicality stakes will show up even more when he is up against an unleashed bomb squad. Baird's form trailed off badly towards the end of the season so doesn't have a very strong claim. Other options that haven't had game time are very untested which is a difficulty, especially given the other enforced changes.

    Other idea that I've seen is Beirne to six but then you don't have any true second rows to bring on - another reason why the bomb squad is a challenge.

    I can't really see anything other than POM starting again at this stage - hopefully he can take a step up and make some form of positive impact in what might be his last match captaining his country and go out on a high.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,600 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Not seeing any evidence to support this claim Baird's form dropped off. Folks keep saying it like just speaking it will make it so. He was running the lineout for Leinster successfully. He's shown up with his carrying and defensive play. He's comfortable outplayed POM this season.



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